E-Props ...who has first hand experience with these

[Blueadventures]

Hi Mark,

Roger Lee from Rotax Owners recommends 5600 to 5650 RPM wide open throttle at your usual altitude, by the look of the eprop they want 5500 max.

Do you know why ?

Could it cause it to go through redline static or on climb at 5650?

 

Kiwi

Rotax state 5500 max continuous. I believe RL aims for between 5500 and 5600 as he does services as a business at that gives a bit of leeway rather than quote for a specific rpm. He recommends 5500 as the best all round setting. I follow his recommendation of 5500 and not above 5600. Eprop would be staying with the Rotax instruction.

[Kiwi]

Yes 5500 is max continuous but 5800 is max rpm for no longer than 5 minutes. If you wanted max climb rpm (or 5600) what would /could you set the eprop to?

My aircraft is set to 5650 straight and level and get about 5500 on climb out.

 

(She's over weight and under powered ☺)

[Kyle Communications]

A couple of guys got 5600 on the initial setup and they have left it there as they are very happy with the results.

[Kiwi]

Thanks Mark

[skippydiesel]

Hi Kyle - so you know I am interested & have checked out the E-Prop:

 

From the web site

 

DURANDAL-3
ATEC ZEPHYR 122
Here are my results on my Zephyr:
PA: 26 at 4800 rpm
PA: 27 at 5500 rpm
PA: 24 at 4300 rpm
tiered
4000 rpm : 180 km/h
4500 rpm : 210 km/h
4800 rpm : 225 km/h
5000 rpm : 240 km/h
5500 rpm : 260 km/h
Max in beam: 5600 rpm : 265 km/h
Decorating distance almost identical to the wood-comp but with the E-Props I gain in climbing and cruising speed of 20 Km/h with the same engine speed.
J-M.P. (2015-02-04)

 

The E-prop gets pretty much glowing reviews but as unusual I have a problem - most are big on subjective comments, have little or no comparative data (befor after) and/or setting  info. So using the above  example, an unusually full  review (still lacking in the aforementioned stuff) that just happens to be applicable to my aircraft:

 

First impression - WOW!!!!!

Then - no pitch setting, static rpm, climb, or fuel/rpm/speed data.

This concerns me because I could probably pitch my existing prop for a max speed type situation - TO role would be very long and climb out poor but I would get a cracker of a top speed at about 5400 or so rpm.

 

To be fair I have little doubt that this is a very nice prop and as most attest smooth in operation

[Blueadventures]

The couple I’ve pitched have a data sheet for the prop set for the aircraft, engine and gear ratio, therefore specific for each set so not listed as general info on the Webb.

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Blueadventures said:

The couple I’ve pitched have a data sheet for the prop set for the aircraft, engine and gear ratio, therefore specific for each set so not listed as general info on the Webb.

Blue- my point is that there is along and impressive listing of positive reviews on the E-prop web site but precious little information to compare my existing props performance with.

 

One very significant point that is not lost on me is the 6 month return policy - makes doing a trial very attractive (may yet get me involved)

[Kyle Communications]

Ah the forever skeptic....I know it seems to be too good to be true.

Every prop comes with a setup starting deg for your type of aircraft. usually you will massage that figure depending on your mission. being a ground adjustable of course you select what you mostly use but all reports so far have had major cruise and also takeoff distance and climb out

 

The owners that have them here have previously set their Bolly and many other props so they have already got the best from their props for their misson or wants. The stick on the Eprop and then tell me holy crap it cant make that much difference. What can I tell you Skippy?..the factory tells me not one person has returned their prop. John Gilpin has one of the props on his savannah now..he has the Stolspeed website and has done previous prop comparisons on his aircraft and published his results. He was flying with it the past 4 days or so. I have spoken to him yet but I think he is a impartial source.

My other prop has been on a very happy with a Bolly savannah owner all last week....he doesnt want to take it off. But cant afford one just at the moment but I knew that as he told me at the time but I was happy for him to trial it. His mate who he currently lives with (due to covid exile from down south) also has a savannah and rang me up to order one the very next day of the other guys first flight with it.

I have 2 props..I have been letting people try. One was the first one I ordered for my Savannah but my aircraft sold the week before it arrived so we put it on a couple of others to try and I now have one which is a demo prop which I have been loaning for people to try. Every single person who has tried it immediately bought one 

 

I dont want to be making this a selling site as its against the rules but I too like data on things. Its in my nature. It was not my intention to do that but I think people should know the facts and I know for me I want to use the best performing equipment I can.

The only issue is the 2 props I have are both 175cm in diameter and depending on the aircraft they go from 160cm up. JG has one and the one off the savannah this week will be then off to replace a Airmaster and we will see what he thinks about it. Keep in mind I do have a demo prop so if you want to get inline for a try of it then PM me Skippy...you just need to pay the freight back to me if you dont like it and the same goes for anyone else. try before you buy....no one else will offer that and that goes for anyone else who wants to try it..thats what I have it for. 

 

So this is not trying be any sales pitch in any way just if you want to take it further take it out of this public forum here and PM me as I feel this is crossing a line a bit too much by the line of questioning

 

But if you have one then I am sure others would love to hear of your results and it would be good to post here and give some "real numbers"...or maybe your objective opinion 

 

Mark

 

[skippydiesel]

Thanks Kyle - my Zephyr is " indisposed" at the moment and is likely to be so for the next 3-6 months (small argument with terra firma). When she is fit again I will be back in touch (get my name on the test que).

 

In regard to your sales bashfulness - I agree with not making the site a sales venue, however I always hope for it to be a place of information derived from free/open & polite discussion - which includes product availability & performance. So factual information, first hand objective opinion is "gold" in my book. You sir, would seem to aspire to these ideals.

[Kyle Communications]

Skippy what Blue is talking about in the pitch is as I said you get a suggested starting point for your type of aircraft. That pitch setting is nothing like you have seen before with any other prop. When you see the blade in the flesh you will understand why. The pictures do not relay how it actually looks in your hand. The pitch start for a savannah is 25.1 deg...guys have either gone a little lower to 24.9 is what we have seen but I think the A22 Foxbat was 27.5 as the starting pitch and I think the CTSW was different again...so its not like other props

 

[JG3]

Gday,

Finally the results of testing the EProp in comparison to Bolly and Kool (Luga), using manifold pressure to set engine power exactly equal for each.

Once again surprising results that required testing again and again to confirm.

The results and analysis are several pages so access them here 
https://www.stolspeed.com/nid/46

 

EProp Testing.docx

[skippydiesel]

All kudos to JG3 - the scientific resources that are available to this forum are astonishing.

 

I focus on his Eprop work and haven't read all the way through his historic test analysis & conclusions.

 

I have jumped to my own conclusion - this is how a comparative study should be done, rather than the subjective and at times emotive testimonials' we have had served up to us.

 

My only observation would be - how would these figures change (if at all) if the sample propellers were mounted on a less "draggy" (speed limiting) airframe ???

[Thruster88]

Thanks JG3 for the comprehensive unbiased testing and excellent explanation of why it is so.

[RFguy]

Wonder how the Eprop compares to the wide blade props  in the state of : 

-prop stopped,  glide case ?

 

[Kyle Communications]

All of the people so far using them have all stated that they have had to modify the landing phase a little as you dont get the same braking force now so glide should be a lot further.

 

The prop setup for this being a fixed pitch prop is different for "normal" use compared to a CS unit. The setup is the same as what most setup their props for which is general use. You would never setup your fixed pitch prop for 5800 rpm WOT as this means yes you will get the best takeoff your can but then cruise will be crap...by a big amount. You only setup a fixed pitch prop like that if you were in a stol competition then repitch it for the flight home otherwise it will take a lot longer to get home. This is where a CS unit will always win

Max power is at 5800 rpm (maximum 5 mins) on the rotax but max CONTINUOUS power is 5500 rpm. Whatever load you place on the engine at the 5500 rpm the only differences in that load will affect fuel flow and thats it.

 

Most will setup their props for WOT at 5500 rpm so whatever take off and climb performance you get will be fixed. When compared to a Bolly setup for 5500 WOT on climb you will only get about 5200 or maybe 5300 rpm if you have a shallowish climb. The Eprop seems to be able to achieve 5500 or almost that amount of RPM at climb. This means you will get better climb performance because your also spinning the prop faster. This has been proved on every single aircraft the prop has been put on. You can ask every single person who has fitted one so far and ask them if they would go back to their original prop and none will want to. All except one who has a insurance issue and type approval issues...he doesnt want to go back but has no choice if he wants to keep his insurance on a factory built aircraft

 

Any fixed pitch prop is going to a compromise for all phases of flight it just depends of course what phase of flight you want specifically or if you want a good all round performance with a leading to the phase you would like. That will take a lot of prop adjusting. Most just want to fit the prop and go fly.

 

I have to admit I have learnt a lot over these past few months about power and props and setups also different blade shapes and effects on performance. 

 

 

[M61A1]

3 hours ago, Kyle Communications said:

All of the people so far using them have all stated that they have had to modify the landing phase a little as you dont get the same braking force now so glide should be a lot further.

This could cause me some issues.....I frequently use my prop as a brake.😱

[skippydiesel]

Kyle - please keep me posted on the CS prop from E-prop. Could be that when I get my Zephyr back in the air the E-prop may have come onto the market - here's wishing.

[skippydiesel]

Oh! I forgot to ask for any erly specifications that might be floating around - weight, blade selection, control system, etc, etc.

[Cosmick]

On 17/10/2020 at 1:37 PM, M61A1 said:

This could cause me some issues.....I frequently use my prop as a brake.😱

I would have thought the the whole Drifter was a brake

[M61A1]

Just now, Cosmick said:

I would have thought the the whole Drifter was a brake

Haha....Different aircraft. Got a 70+ inch two blade Sensenich on it.

When you pull the throttle back to idle, you can just drop the nose and descend over 1500fpm and stay below Va.

[Kyle Communications]

On 24/10/2020 at 3:46 PM, skippydiesel said:

Oh! I forgot to ask for any erly specifications that might be floating around - weight, blade selection, control system, etc, etc.

What..... specs on the Eprop CS?

 

[RFguy]

.

Edited October 25, 2020 by RFguy
wrong forum topic

[skippydiesel]

23 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said:

What..... specs on the Eprop CS?

 

Yep!  - E-Prop must surely be letting a few morsels out of the "Top Secret" room. Just might encourage a potential buyer to hold on until they are released.

[Kyle Communications]

I am sure I have already posted this info in another forum

 

"Our range of variable pitch propellers is currently being tested. Deliveries not before mid-2021, and no prices for the moment, because we have not finished the production machines, so we can't calculate the cost prices.
The performance is amazing and the weight... 3,4 kg for the 3-blade, 4 kg complete with spinner all inclusive.

we will have the 3 systems: manual, electric and hydraulic, with all the desired control systems.
It will take some time but we will offer a complete range.  :-)"

[Blueadventures]

23 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said:

I am sure I have already posted this info in another forum

 

"Our range of variable pitch propellers is currently being tested. Deliveries not before mid-2021, and no prices for the moment, because we have not finished the production machines, so we can't calculate the cost prices.
The performance is amazing and the weight... 3,4 kg for the 3-blade, 4 kg complete with spinner all inclusive.

we will have the 3 systems: manual, electric and hydraulic, with all the desired control systems.
It will take some time but we will offer a complete range.  :-)"

Can’t beat that for variety, just need patience while they develop / test / prove design. Thanks for update Mark. Cheers.