Can RAA Aircraft Use VFR Corridors and Routes Through C Airspace?

[walrus]

It’s not clear to me if RAA aircraft piloted by a certificate holder can transit VFR corridors through C or D airspace. I’m thinking in particular of Williamtown. Then there are the corridors through danger and restricted areas as well. For example near East Sale.

 

There is an OZ Stol event later this year North of Newcastle (Wallis Island) that got me interested, However getting there from the South might be problematic.

[APenNameAndThatA]

I doubt it but am not an expert.

[kgwilson]

Class C & D airspace is controlled airspace. VFR corridors (Victor Lanes) are still within this airspace & VH registered aircraft with transponders can transit without requiring any permission from controllers, unless they call you and ask you to do something. RA registered aircraft are excluded. This is an area of contention especially at Williamtown and Coffs Harbour where RA aircraft have to fly around the zone over some inhospitable country. A transit lane to the seaward side would be better for everyone especially when cloudbase is low. Although I have held a PPL for nearly 40 years it is no longer current & my aircraft is RAA registered but if I want to transit these areas I will always call control and ask. They can always say no but I have never been declined.

[Roscoe]

It’s not clear to me if RAA aircraft piloted by a certificate holder can transit VFR corridors through C or D airspace. I’m thinking in particular of Williamtown. Then there are the corridors through danger and restricted areas as well. For example near East Sale.

 

There is an OZ Stol event later this year North of Newcastle (Wallis Island) that got me interested, However getting there from the South might be problematic.

To enter Controlled Airspace such as Class D or the Williamtown Control Zone where you may be vectored, you must hold at least a PPL and class 2 Medical.

At Williamtown on weekends some of their airspace reverts to Class G ( or used to) so i suggest to have a look at ERSA for the latest situation

[Roscoe]

Class C & D airspace is controlled airspace. VFR corridors (Victor Lanes) are still within this airspace & VH registered aircraft with transponders can transit without requiring any permission from controllers, unless they call you and ask you to do something. RA registered aircraft are excluded. This is an area of contention especially at Williamtown and Coffs Harbour where RA aircraft have to fly around the zone over some inhospitable country. A transit lane to the seaward side would be better for everyone especially when cloudbase is low. Although I have held a PPL for nearly 40 years it is no longer current & my aircraft is RAA registered but if I want to transit these areas I will always call control and ask. They can always say no but I have never been declined.

Kevin i believe we posted at the same time!

[walrus]

I guess you can go through the restricted areas when not activated, but the circle around the airport reverts to class C when the tower or military use is inactive.

 

What a mess.

[aro]

They can always say no but I have never been declined.

 

Be aware, it's not the controllers job to police the rules. Just because the controller gives a clearance doesn't mean that a RAA certificate holder is allowed to fly into the airspace.

[M61A1]

I guess you can go through the restricted areas when not activated, but the circle around the airport reverts to class C when the tower or military use is inactive.

 

What a mess.

It's not particularly difficult to manage. We deal with Oakey and Amberley all the time. If it's your local area it might be handy to keep the local "Ops" phone number on your contacts list in your phone and have the local ATIS frequency stored in you radio. ERSA says williamtown reverts to CTAF outside ATS hours.

RAAF Ops people are usually quite friendly and easy to deal with.

[Roscoe]

It's not particularly difficult to manage. We deal with Oakey and Amberley all the time. If it's your local area it might be handy to keep the local "Ops" phone number on your contacts list in your phone and have the local ATIS frequency stored in you radio. ERSA says williamtown reverts to CTAF outside ATS hours.

RAAF Ops people are usually quite friendly and easy to deal with.

Yes but as aro says, a Pilot with just a RAA Cert is not allowed to enter Controlled Airspace when active.

[Flightrite]

It's not particularly difficult to manage. We deal with Oakey and Amberley all the time. If it's your local area it might be handy to keep the local "Ops" phone number on your contacts list in your phone and have the local ATIS frequency stored in you radio. ERSA says williamtown reverts to CTAF outside ATS hours.

RAAF Ops people are usually quite friendly and easy to deal with.

 

I've also found the RAAF very friendly, just ask, if they can't then that's that!

[kgwilson]

Be aware, it's not the controllers job to police the rules. Just because the controller gives a clearance doesn't mean that a RAA certificate holder is allowed to fly into the airspace.

The weather can be perfectly fine for flying coastal but not so inland so the rules are just stupid. I don't give a flying fig about the rules if I am given permission to fly coastal when the alternative is over tiger country with tops in the cloud. Of course the other alternative is not to fly at all or turn round & when the weather is OK otherwise this is a restrictive stupid rule. CASA has been stuffing around for years and RAA still don't have access to CTR. RA pilots in NZ have been able to fly in CTR for more than 20 years with no problems. Same in the US & Canada.

[Thruster88]

It’s not clear to me if RAA aircraft piloted by a certificate holder can transit VFR corridors through C or D airspace. I’m thinking in particular of Williamtown. Then there are the corridors through danger and restricted areas as well. For example near East Sale.

 

There is an OZ Stol event later this year North of Newcastle (Wallis Island) that got me interested, However getting there from the South might be problematic.

You can go through the inland VFR route without a ATC clearance if you like flying low over tiger country. ?

[Roundsounds]

Simply go and get yourself a motorised glider and appropriate GFA certificate / airspace endorsements and away you go on a self certified medical without the need to hold a PPL or AFR.

[aro]

CASA has been stuffing around for years and RAA still don't have access to CTR.

 

RAA can get access to CTR by filling in a RPL application form and doing a flight review that can double as the CTA endorsement. How much simpler do you want it?

[Roscoe]

RAA can get access to CTR by filling in a RPL application form and doing a flight review that can double as the CTA endorsement. How much simpler do you want it?

aro doesnt this apply to a flying school plane only, and not a private operator?

At Camden, Students at the RAA School get their RAA Cert and can operate under a dispensation, but someone fronting up with their own plane cant do this unless they have a PPL and Medical?

[kasper]

Long time since I flew victor 1 but it used to be that it was outside controlled airspace ... that’s why you were limited to 500amsl on Sydney qnh and stayed within the lane.

 

I am not flying near victor 1 these days so special procedures processes are not to the front of my mind.

 

Can an instructor on here who knows this stuff comment to say if victor airways are still outside class c or not and if it’s outside c is it e or g?

[aro]

At Camden, Students at the RAA School get their RAA Cert and can operate under a dispensation, but someone fronting up with their own plane cant do this unless they have a PPL and Medical?

 

You need a CASA Part 61 license.

A RAA certificate holder can get a Part 61 RPL by filling in an application form and completing a GA flight review. You can cover CTA in the flight review. I believe that flight review will also count as your RAA flight review.

You need a medical but it is not more onerous than required for a PPL to fly in CTA.

 

There are also conditions on the aircraft (see CAO 95.55), but from a license point of view an endorsement is simple and available.

[graham brown]

The military airspace to the west of Forster is usually deactivated so a west approach is usually available with no clearance. Not sure where south is but as long as you stay away from Sydney and Newcastle and come into Forster from the west there is no airspace issue.

[Flightrite]

V1 is OCTA, you turn up, remain in VMC @ 500 above the Sharks spit out the required call/s and enjoy the ride?

[Downunder]

You need a CASA Part 61 license.

A RAA certificate holder can get a Part 61 RPL by filling in an application form and completing a GA flight review. You can cover CTA in the flight review. I believe that flight review will also count as your RAA flight review.

You need a medical but it is not more onerous than required for a PPL to fly in CTA.

 

There are also conditions on the aircraft (see CAO 95.55), but from a license point of view an endorsement is simple and available.

I know a pilot that has exactly that.

Raa cert, RPL with cta endorsements. He can fly his 24 rego plane in class D any time he wants.

And yes, he does the one GA bfr which covers his Raa bfr at the same time.

[walrus]

No disagreemenT, you are just up for about $600 for a ppl bfr and another $300 for the medical. Followed by $300 for the ASIC. Simply to use a few miles of track occasionally and access some airports in your two seat aircraft. We truly are idiots.

Edited June 19, 2020 by walrus

[Student Pilot]

I've also found the RAAF very friendly, just ask, if they can't then that's that!

Found RAAF mostly friendly, Willy and Amberly can be hard to get on with. Held at Newcastle quite a few times over the heads in strong westerlies, if they have anything inbound (Airline or military) they won't let you anywhere near the place. Sydney has Victor one where you can fly right beside one of Australia's busiest airports, at Williamtown they won't let you anywhere near them with very little traffic.

[Flightrite]

No disagreemenT, you are just up for about $600 for a ppl bfr and another $300 for the medical. Followed by $300 for the ASIC. Simply to use a few miles of track occasionally and access some airports in your two seat aircraft. We truly are idiots.

 

I accept the costs, it's the cost of doing business so to speak to be able to fly within the constraints of RA (originally set up to keep flying being simple and affordable, at a cost) and to fly GA with a full licence with little restrictions. It's all about choice, it's not ideal but it's a choice.

[Downunder]

access some airports

Not if you NEED to access that airport and there are not many other options.

Accessing class D can give you immediate access to fuel, to hire cars, to maintenance and to accomodation.

The "work arounds" of not accessing class D can cost more in time and money (and time IS money) than getting the qualification.

ASIC's have nothing to do with class D airports. There would be far far more CTAF's requiring ASIC's than class D.

[kgwilson]

Flying in CTR is not rocket science. You just need some training and a transponder. The BS about the requirement of having certified instruments, aircraft and RPL/PPL in class D and at the stroke of the clock the exact same airspace reverts to Class G & any RAA aircraft, factory or amateur built with a RPC pilot is legal is laughable. Same as ASIC, a knee jerk reaction to 911. I don't know of anywhere else in the world that you need this extra bit of ridiculous security.