Learning key words in class D

[Ando]

After some help with radio read back and using the key words in class D. Tips for practice in expecting and repeat back. Thanks Andy

[snarf007]

After some help with radio read back and using the key words in class D. Tips for practice in expecting and repeat back. Thanks Andy

Go to the live ATC website and choose your favourite class D airport and have a listen.

[APenNameAndThatA]

After some help with radio read back and using the key words in class D. Tips for practice in expecting and repeat back. Thanks Andy

Snarf gave the best advice. Another option is the app LiveATC. Humans learn language by imitation. At Archerfield, I was not ready to repeat back the instructions “On bravo, cross 04 right, cross 04 left, hold at bravo 5 for 10 left.” There are only two taxi instructions that are usually given, so there is a finite amount to learn.

[APenNameAndThatA]

Snarf gave the best advice. Another option is the app LiveATC. Humans learn language by imitation. At Archerfield, I was not ready to repeat back the instructions “On bravo, cross 04 right, cross 04 left, hold at bravo 5 for 10 left.” There are only two taxi instructions that are usually given, so there is a finite amount to learn.

I have the purple ATC book about using the radio. Not nearly as much help as the ap.

[440032]

Or for the facts, you could just read up what AIP says on the topic.

Way too much crap is read back these days because someone starts doing it and everyone else joins in.

[Ryanm]

Or for the facts, you could just read up what AIP says on the topic.

Way too much crap is read back these days because someone starts doing it and everyone else joins in.

Like “Pending clearance”

[turboplanner]

Don't listen to ATC for your knowledge; you will pick up every mistake in the book thinking that is what you should say because others do, and you wil also pick up all the bad habits, so you might be Top Gun at your local airport, but get into serious trouble when you start genuine cross-country flying (through a couple of States in the day). I did it, so I'm talking from experience.

 

However, of far greater importance is that it won't teach you WHY a call is or isn't made and what you must DO.

 

One of the documents below has this little comment buried in the text " risk factor: failure to use standard phraseology in aeronautical communication" From that we would recognise we have been made aware of a risk, so we have a duty of care to prevent that risk - so any post-crash investigation where we were hit by and RPT and survived will go to those workds and ask us what we were thinking of.

 

So I decided to spend some time looking for the phrases, and this is what I found:

 

Firstly we need to depart from the CASA organisation and go to AirServices.

 

Airservices Australia

 

Operating in Class D airspace Safety Net

https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/Safety-Net-Operating-in-Class-D-Airspace.pdf

 

This document is telling you what you have to do in Class D

It calls up Documents:

AIP Gen 3.4

AIP ENR 1.1

Advisory Collision Avoidance System (ACAS) Manual ICAO Document 9863

Procedures – Aircraft Operations Vol 1, ICAO 8168

AIP ERSA

 

The one we’re interested is the red one ICAO 8168 at this link

http://www.chcheli.com/sites/default/files/icao_doc_8168_vol_1.pdf

 

In several places this document refers to standard phraseology by ATC and Pilots and calls up ICAO document 4444 (which you can find using the link below).

https://ops.group/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/ICAO-Doc4444-Pans-Atm-16thEdition-2016-OPSGROUP.pdf

 

• Make sure you have the latest version of this document.
  
• Do a global search for “phraseology” (hit the control and f key and the same time then type phraseology)
  

 

The standard phrases are in Chapter 12

 

 

Disclaimer: This is not definitive, or a replacement for a training course in radio communications, or communication requirements but it will give you a starting point to prompt for further study.

[Ando]

Thank you very much Turbs great information and very helpful. Your time spent for researching is much appreciated I never realised the depth of this. Andy

[turboplanner]

Thank you very much Turbs great information and very helpful. Your time spent for researching is much appreciated I never realised the depth of this. Andy

What I like about it is that it's clear and concise, and doesn't contain the last 60 years of versions we are no longer supposed to be using.

[Ando]

AIP GEN 3.4 - 4.1.4

Couldn’t get any simpler than that !

[Flightrite]

When I first started driving planes I bought a Tandy airband recieved and listed as much as I could. I'd recommend listening out from the various avenues, much can be learned in the real world!?

[440032]

Quiz time:

Tower says: ABC, you are number three following a Cessna on downwind, expect your base turn on my call.

What do you read back? And why.

(Just going to get some popcorn.)

[Flightrite]

Quiz time:

Tower says: ABC, you are number three following a Cessna on downwind, expect your base turn on my call.

What do you read back? And why.

(Just going to get some popcorn.)

 

ABC...Roger?? You say 'Roger' as all ATC'ers are named that, must be I hear that name all the time?

[Ironpot]

Quiz time:

Tower says: ABC, you are number three following a Cessna on downwind, expect your base turn on my call.

What do you read back? And why.

(Just going to get some popcorn.)

 

In this instance I don’t think there is a readback requirement but I like them to know I understand what he has said plus it imprints it in my short term memory.

I would say “ turn base on your call ABC “

[facthunter]

The elements of a read back should relate to what can be considered a clearance . In this instance it's "don't turn base UNTILL I tell you". I'm with Ironpot. The other bit is helpful info for you about your situation. There's a logic to it (or should be). once you get it IF tower said FOLLOW Cessna on downwind, That would be essential also as you are then given a requirement. Nev

[440032]

Stand by, checking

Edited July 17, 2020 by 440032

[Jase T]

Number 3 Alpha Bravo Charlie

[Jase T]

Alpha Bravo Charlie if it helps I can make a helicopter arrival direct to the pad remaining clear of the circuit.....

[440032]

Close, but no bananas. And I'm just using the AIP facts for the result.

1/2 point bonus for Jase because it's technically viable.

[SplitS]

Quiz time:

Tower says: ABC, you are number three following a Cessna on downwind, expect your base turn on my call.

What do you read back? And why.

(Just going to get some popcorn.)

EFG?

[APenNameAndThatA]

"Number three. Continue downwind. ABC"

[Jerry_Atrick]

In the UK, it would be Wilco, VH-ABC

[Kieran17]

Tower says: ABC, you are number three following a Cessna on downwind, expect your base turn on my call.

What do you read back? And why.

 

Just the callsign will do thanks. "ABC". What you have been given is some information and an expectation, no clearance. It may open up some flexibility if you have the Cessna in sight and let us know "Cessna in sight, ABC", in which case you may get "ABC, follow the Cessna" (an instruction requiring readback). As it's only an expectation that's been given, it may change and doesn't need a readback. If wanted to lock it in, you'd be told to "maintain downwind".

As for why we'd say this, it can come down to a few possible reasons but it's primarily done to keep you on the loop of what the plan is (and reduce the chance of you messing it up...).

 

1. We may be planning on getting a departure away between said Cessna and yourself, and want to buffer the spacing.

2. We may know something you don't, maybe the Cessna will be doing a stop and go (require backtrack?), or touch and go with practice EFATO? **

3. Maybe you've been cutting it too fine and we no longer trust you to play nicely

 

 

The elements of a read back should relate to what can be considered a clearance .

 

Being a bit pedantic here with words and I'm sure it's what you meant, but, readbacks relate to what is a clearance, not can be/could be/might be/maybe...

 

 

**If you're wanting to to some oddball stuff, let us know before hand and we can work it into our plans accordingly.

[facthunter]

So if you can't see or identify the Cessna positively, the pilot would inform you? I certainly would. Nev

[Kieran17]

So if you can't see or identify the Cessna positively, the pilot would inform you? I certainly would. Nev

 

No, there's no need. That can be one of the other reasons for the original transmission: we know you won't be able to see the Cessna, you're safe to continue what you're doing, expect to hear from us again soon.

 

If you get to the point that you're ready for base and haven't heard anything from us, then give us a nudge. Maybe we forgot about you, maybe we're busy, maybe we don't want you turning yet.

 

"ABC, ready for base"

"ABC, continue approach/turn base" (same thing) or "maintain downwind".

 

 

If we want to know whether you can see the Cessna or not, we'll say so.

"ABC, number three to a Cessna on downwind, expect base turn on my call, report traffic in sight"

"Looking/traffic in sight, ABC"