CO poisoning ??

[facthunter]

Keep it up, Spacey. You are TOO relaxed. Nev

[spacesailor]

Very Hard working life whem young, started an aprentiship swinging a sledgehammer to " tuffen the boys up ".

8 started only 2 within 12 month,s survived, I had septic blisters within a couple of week,s so was off the hammer for months.

And doing a 5 Mile run before breakfast.

spacesailor

[facthunter]

I resemble those remarks. Nev

[IBob]

Would you kiss and ashtray? Nev.

I would definitely have kissed Ms 25,000' , since you ask..........:)

[facthunter]

Yes, no doubt, but given the choice would you prefer ashtray flavour or a cascading mountain waterfall? Nev

[IBob]

The choice would be a fine thing.............:)

[poteroo]

Flying in PNG back in the 60's posed many problems with loadings, maintenance but also with altitudes and pilot awareness. We often needed 14,000 to get back over many of the ranges, and this by midday.

 

I thought I was going to lose a passenger one day in 1969, when directed to pickup 4 VIPs off a jet at Jacksons Airport, (the main Port Moresby airport). One of them was indeed a VIP, and he also owned the airline. His name was Bert Kienzle, and he was the plantation owner from near Kokoda who planned and organised the entire carrier lines in support of the Aussies Kokoda Track operation - some 15,000 of them. His life story is contained in The Architect of Kokoda by Robyn Kienzle 2011.

 

It was already 1400 local time, and Flight Service were saying that the Kokoda Gap was closed below 11,000. Great, this means a significant diversion to the SE via the E of Mt Obree. Another 2 hrs fuel into the PA-23-250C that I was given.

 

Bert was quite chatty, and asked about the Gap weather as we departed. 'Going via the SE' said I. "A good idea' says Bert, 'we usually get in that way even if it takes a bit longer'. It did indeed take both a bit longer and a lot higher, (14,000 in fact, without oxygen, but thankfully only for 10 mins or so. Bert looked a bit sleepy, but I put it down to a long flight up from Australia, plus his being 65 at that time. Once we hit the warm, humid air east of Kokoda, Bert perked up and very accurately directed me to the Kokoda strip. Had we been forced to stay up longer, and fly out to the north coast before descent, I'm not sure he would have been so good. Other pilots later told me that Bert could point out every rock and creek along the Kokoda Track in good weather - as you expect from his history of marking it out, to running the entire Army supply chain in 42/43.

 

As an non-smoker, and being 28yo, I rarely felt any hypoxia below 14,000, but today, (50 years later), I really do notice being at 10,000. There were many stories about aircraft flown to 18,000 to clear wx in those days. Usually, it proved smarter to divert around the wx, and keep the back door open, and the brain well supplied with o2.

 

happy days,

[facthunter]

The LSALT was 17400 from memory LAE- POM. You had to get going earlier in the day to beat the Cu's rising up.. Never used O2 but I was 26 then. Nev

[RFguy]

On CO detectors and planes..A little while back we were looking at backup AC generator fumes in a building, and the more expensive one read about half the cheapie. The cheapie was responsive to other combustion products in the air, and other gases, and the pricey one was not.

 

However The cheapie always had a direct 2:1 correlation when it was exhaust gases...

 

This is excellent reading :
 

http://www.tc.faa.gov/its/worldpac/techrpt/ar0949.pdf

 

A comprehensive FAA report

Now, also it deals with the different types of CO detectors, the low end ones ($50) are accurate but they're also sensitive to other gases. 

 

be sure to read appendix D and B. The document is a consolidation of documents

-glen

 

  

 

Edited October 3, 2020 by RFguy

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, RFguy said:

the different types of CO detectors, the low end ones ($50) are accurate but they're also sensitive to other gases. 

Is that such a bad thing? Any chemical detector should be sensitive to the its designed chemical. If it is, great. But if it also detects other chemicals that we don't really want, then that's a plus. Imagine if your CO detector also happened to react to CO2. That is a dangerous gas in a confined space, and is a gas likely to be encountered in the cockpit.

 

Also, we can only use up to 21% of the volume of air we breathe in. That's all the oxygen that is usually in it. If we go putting other gases in, even vapours like water and fuel vapours, we are reducing the amount of oxygen we can take in with every breath. I suppose that our body's protection system has developed so that if we can smell something, there's too much of it in the air. Try going near a teenage boy who has a can of Lynx.

[gareth lacey]

1 hour ago, old man emu said:

Is that such a bad thing? Any chemical detector should be sensitive to the its designed chemical. If it is, great. But if it also detects other chemicals that we don't really want, then that's a plus. Imagine if your CO detector also happened to react to CO2. That is a dangerous gas in a confined space, and is a gas likely to be encountered in the cockpit.

 

Also, we can only use up to 21% of the volume of air we breathe in. That's all the oxygen that is usually in it. If we go putting other gases in, even vapours like water and fuel vapours, we are reducing the amount of oxygen we can take in with every breath. I suppose that our body's protection system has developed so that if we can smell something, there's too much of it in the air. Try going near a teenage boy who has a can of Lynx.

or using no lynx at all, is it me but i detect that most young people teens are rather smelly body odour ,yuk 

 

[facthunter]

You olfactory senses  have been evolved to warn you of the dangers of being near or consuming certain things, You can't smell CO or CO2 , CO2 is not poisonous, but will displace oxygen, so you can get oxygen deprivation. Nev

[RFguy]

Hi OME. you got it - that was the point I was making- the cheapies having some multi gas detection capability, will give you the warning you need..

 

50ppm is the FAA limit, alarms from 35ppm recommended....and if (the cheapie)  says 60ppm and you have actually 30ppm of CO (amongst all the other foul stuff from exhaust) that's enough  trouble.....

Reading that FAA document I posted, assuming the certified system was OK, old mufflers and old exhaust systems/manifolds (> 1000 h)  are the biggest trouble. and seals in airplanes go bad after a while, also.

 

like I said, eye opening reading.

-glen

Edited October 4, 2020 by RFguy

[Jabiru7252]

On 04/08/2020 at 7:16 PM, Marty_d said:

Really??

 

Gawd the back end of the 701 is in no way airtight. Do any others with the boxy aluminium planes have this problem?

Neither is the Foxbat. 

[IBob]

The C185 has two dinky little air scoops high on the fuse just forward of the stabiliser. I've read that these are positioned to avoid exhaust fumes while providing a slight positive pressure in the fuse, so reducing or preventing the ingress of fumes from the noisy end.

A similar thing happens with (some) microlights in summer, where the round ventilators in the doors are set as cooling air scoops with the result that the cockpit is pressurised. Unfortunately, with the vents in winter setting, the reverse may be the case.

[facthunter]

The airflow over most fuselages causes a depression inside most small planes unless something is done about it. That's why alternate static gives a change in affected instruments. Nev