flight planning over tiger country?

[RFguy]

When I get a bit of experience there are a couple of routes I want to fly . And the destination is substantially over tiger country (TC). So how to plan if the (single) engine quits.

 

In this case, Canberra to Latrobe Valley. Direct 210nm. (or 8 hours drive) I came up with a route (zig zag) that would put me over RWS as much as possible, along various pastural/primary producer valleys, and never more than 10nm from anywhere that looked like a clearing (without power lines) when over the TC. ..about 250nm. not bad.

 

Weather and other meteorological phenom aside, There is still a bit of a problem with that . Having a 10:1 glide ratio is one thing. But some longer sections of TC , the MSA is still 5500'. Even at 9000' that is a complication.

As I see it there are two possibilities, from my extremely limited knowledge :

1) Fly around the TC . OK 330-350nm.

2) For each waypoint, step, one by one, have a continguincy plan , well researched and studied., and for varying WX condix, including that it might take a 180 to get into the wind (or consider alternative ALA for different WX)

 

Seems there is great utility in this case for low stall speed airplanes if you really must land almost anywhere.

 

"discuss" :-)

 

-glen

[RFguy]

and I use the term "land anywhere" loosely- more like 'survive'

[old man emu]

First plan your trip to take account of the seasonal weather patterns. If those flights are recreational, do them at those times of the year when high pressure systems sit over the south-east corner. That will give you clear skies and gentle winds.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I wonder why you are forced to fly so low.

My answer is that CASA WANTS you to crash so that they can get more bureaucratic power.

If this were not true , you could fly higher and be safer without having any effect whatsoever on RPT.

[turboplanner]

I wonder why you are forced to fly so low.

My answer is that CASA WANTS you to crash so that they can get more bureaucratic power.

If this were not true , you could fly higher and be safer without having any effect whatsoever on RPT.

Usually you can make a relatively small deviation in track, go past your destination slightly, then come back in complete safety.

Depending on the winds there may not be miuch difference in air time.

[RFguy]

Hi Bruce.

With an RPL and RAaus in an RA reg LSA category airplane, I guess i am flying on RAaus rules 10k ft ceiling ) ? , since CAO95.55 refers to 'the aeroplane' .

 

The airspace is ClassE above FL125 in the region. North of canberra the Class E is 8500'+, AFAIKT

 

Turbo- that's a good point. Going around the long way might well provide favourable wind condix..

[pmccarthy]

Don't stress , the engine does not know it is over tiger country.

[Ferris]

Hey RF. Welcome to the club of perpetually looking skyward towards your next flight!

 

As a pilot, especially from Canberra you will eventually have to fly over tiger country. Sometimes there are just no other options. You have to have trust in your equipment, the same as NVFR and IFR pilots trust their instruments, no matter what they are feeling in the seat of their pants.

 

Its a calculated risk. Personally I would not be comfortable going over Perisher at 8500, that’s just too close to the granite.

 

All you can do is make sure you and your aircraft are as prepared as you can be.

 

With regard to this trip have you considered going coastal? It’s only about an extra 50 nm.

[skippydiesel]

I live & fly out of the Sydney Basin "tiger country" in almost every direction. My strategy is to fly as high as allowable, so as to maximise the glide time/distance of my aircraft.

Unfortunately this strategy is constrained by controlled (civilian & military) airspace and extraordinarily low light aircraft "transit" lanes.

I console myself with anal attention to maintenance, fuel quality, planing and in air communication/reporting.

I also carry some survival stuff (water, concentrated food/fire lighting & light weight weather protection, a hand held air band transever and a PLB.

Last but far from least, my aircraft has a very very low stall speed - provided I fly it down to & stall on, impact, there is every chance I will walk away.

[RFguy]

Hi Ferris . Yeah the coast is only a little further. below is the mud map. actually down to Delegate, along the Deddick Valley, then down through Buchan isnt too bad , not so high terrain.. I see there is a Class R around Sale.

 

Interesting exercise anyway.

 

Skippy , yeah you live in a really tight envelope. When I have flown (right seat) to Maitland, have gone north , then east to avoid the whole lot.... Do u fly outof The Oaks or Camden ?

 

glen

[Downunder]

RAA aircraft can fly in class E if adsb equipped, if that's any help....

[Old Koreelah]

Don't stress , the engine does not know it is over tiger country.

Mine does!

[Old Koreelah]

Glen another aspect is that Yowie territory often has enough cloud cover to stop you using the "glide-from" altitude you'd planned into the crossing.

[NT5224]

As somebody who's engine seized and destroyed itself in cruise over tiger country i share your concerns. However I now operate from my home strip which is deep in said tiger country, so heres my advice.

 

As somebody wrote above, study google maps over you planned route and identify every possible site for a forced landing. Roads, property tracks, paddocks -anything you could side slip into. Then enter these as emergency 'go to' points in your EFB or GPS . Obviously altitude is your friend, but even if some legs of your flight are beyond gliding range to your emergency points, some of the flight will be -and having them will give you confidence.

 

 

Alan

Edited August 14, 2020 by NT5224

[facthunter]

Steep sloping heavily wooded areas are the worst. You might not even be easily found. When I was younger I didn't think of it as much as I should have. The planes I flew in were well maintained . This LSALT thing is not really a limiter as you would never fly up a valley or land in some places if you applied it. It's nice to know what it is and IF you become non VMC it then becomes critical. Valley flying has few rules. Powerlines do give you cleared terrain. in the areas you mention I fly from cleared patch to the next Farms etc. wide road verges. IF you take off from say Hotham do a circling climb out and when high enough head to your next Cleared patch. It pays to have surveyed the area the best way you can and get advice on weather on the way from observers if available and of concern. Basically it's weird to trust your life to an infernal combustion engine keeping running, so do that as little as possible. Fly over what you can land on and survive. Proper planning prevents piss poor performance. Nev

[NT5224]

Steep sloping heavily wooded areas are the worst. You might not even be easily found. When I was younger I didn't think of it as much as I should have. The planes I flew in were well maintained . This LSALT thing is not really a limiter as you would never fly up a valley or land in some places if you applied it. It's nice to know what it is and IF you become non VMC it then becomes critical. Valley flying has few rules. Powerlines do give you cleared terrain. in the areas you mention I fly from cleared patch to the next Farms etc. wide road verges. IF you take off from say Hotham do a circling climb out and when high enough head to your next Cleared patch. It pays to have surveyed the area the best way you can and get advice on weather on the way from observers if available and of concern. Basically it's weird to trust your life to an infernal combustion engine keeping running, so do that as little as possible. Fly over what you can land on and survive. Proper planning prevents piss poor performance. Nev

Yeah, this is absolutely right (the circling climb) and exactly what i do departing my strip. In another life we called it the 'Baghdad corkscrew'. Basically gain as much height as possible before striking out over tiger country.

[RFguy]

Yeah so sounds like I have the general idea. divide it up between areas you could land and areas you cannot land, and research and plan each tiger leg.

Perhaps have laminated aerial photos of each leg with markup and info so it is all easy to read and obvious when it is needed. The next variable on a trip through the mountains and tigers is weather variations, a diversion is a possible need, with cloud over LZs in the valleys. The plan starts to look like a path of a lightning strike. Experience will grow with determining how many contingincy diversions are required. g

[Yenn]

There is no way you will fly direct from Canberra to Latrobe Valley. A large part of that route is in "Designated remote area" Whichever way you go it will be long and convoluted. Start planning by looking at where the remote area is, then the restricted areas you have to steer clear of and the controlled areas or military areas. Then you can pick a route and keep refining it until you are happy with it, but it is not going to be 204 deg, 218 nm.

[facthunter]

You are OK from Benambra to Latrobe Valley or to Porepunka if you survey it accurately and do a bit of zig zagging... Nev

[RFguy]

Hi Yenn, you'll see I posted what I think is a workable route in this topic. worst case 15nm between possible LZs, mostly 900 to 1500' ASL.

essentially down to Delegate, westish along Deddick Valley to where Barry Way hits civilization (if you can call Seldom Seen civilization) , south past Buchan, Nowa Nowa and after that, plenty of choice.

 

Nev, I have driven Omeo - Benambra- Nariel - Corryong quite a bit. As you said " Basically it's weird to trust your life to an infernal combustion engine keeping running, so do that as little as possible. Fly over what you can land on and survive. "

[alf jessup]

Hi Yenn, you'll see I posted what I think is a workable route in this topic. worst case 15nm between possible LZs, mostly 900 to 1500' ASL.

essentially down to Delegate, westish along Deddick Valley to where Barry Way hits civilization (if you can call Seldom Seen civilization) , south past Buchan, Nowa Nowa and after that, plenty of choice.

 

Nev, I have driven Omeo - Benambra- Nariel - Corryong quite a bit. As you said " Basically it's weird to trust your life to an infernal combustion engine keeping running, so do that as little as possible. Fly over what you can land on and survive. "

RFguy,

I have flown many times over the divide in a Trike and in my Tecnam, depending on what you are flying and what route you are taking & the winds aloft will give you the minutes you spend over no man’s land.

Height is your friend, if cloud base limits you you will have longer runs over where the tigers hide.

You must know the wind direction as it could be critical if the fan stops, the valley 10 miles down wind might be reachable where the valley 5 miles upwind might not be.

It is all weather related, you need probably a minimum of 2500 ft above the terrain to avoid possible mountain wave situations but you can get it higher than that above terrain.

I used to fly either 8500 or 9500 depending on the direction you are heading you also must remember you are up there with IFR traffic with 500ft separation so be disciplined with your heights, at those heights it used to give me a far greater gliding range and in the Tecnam I’m usually no more than 3 minutes over no man’s land, mind you I was always aware of wind direction and track, I just stayed within gliding range of a reachable valley.

At the end of the day it is a calculated risk if the fan stops, you just have to have a disciplined plan and stick to it.

The odds of the engine stopping is minimal, just don’t be blaise and direct track over long areas of Tiger country, crossing the divide has a lot more options than some may think.

[facthunter]

Really know and understand the weather in these areas. After rain has passed through the humidity rises and the cloud base lowers. If it's also cooling in the period after mid afternoon even more so. Lowering cloud base is a warning. If you are in a valley with a cloud ceiling above you be ready to turnback if it's looking at all risky while you have time and a SAFE escape route. Travel to the (right) of the valley so you always have room to turn (Normal best vis from LH seat in a turn). Near the crest of ridges expect turbulence and down drafts if you are into wind. Coastal tracks will generally encounter mists, low cloud and fog in treed and lake areas unless there's a definite dry wind prevailing over the area. Smoke from burning off can mask cloud. Nev

[RFguy]

thanks all for the info and advice. that region, class G goes to 11500 I think. regs aside.

 

In Canberra we have a winter phenom, where after a clear blue sky sunrise, about 15 to 45 minutes after sunrise, a cloud layer appears at about 3000' AGL within minutes IE it goes from clear blue sky to dense cloud in minutes..... Hangs around till noon. likely rising moist air hitting some sort of thermocline.

 

Most tasks in my life I turn them into a study. The detail and thinking required to plan these things is highly enjoyable activity. Discussing routes with others will be a highly enjoyable pasttime.

 

I guess anyone who lives on the coast, at least of NSW has similar issues if they want to go inland.

 

Another important destination for me is going to be Maitland airport (YMND). Where to cross the tigers is a topic for that one. Some say go around the top of the hunter valley. others say cling to the edge of the sydney basin.

[APenNameAndThatA]

To make crashing more survivable, you could have a ballistic parachute and flight helmet.

[RFguy]

To make crashing more survivable, you could have a ballistic parachute and flight helmet.

Helmet is mandatory. (from my POV), As for parachute. Naaaa. I'll fly it I think within the capabilities of the pilot and aircraft. Not that I don't like chutes. I have done many passenger hours in the Cirrus over tiger country, and long hops ...... In fact that's an interesting point. Tony was never concerned about tiger country with his parachute on board. The direct track was dialed in. That's something for convenience and minimizing fight times I guess, assuming the weather doesnt kill you. But a chute landing is not 100% safe either. Given the choice of a reasonable LZ and the chute, I would want to land ! But if offered the $5000 option for a chute on an aircraft I would take it.

Edited August 15, 2020 by RFguy