Buying aircraft- 80 % / 100 % use case ?

[APenNameAndThatA]

Its great that you support your friend however I suggest you try reading and more importantly understand, what what I have written.

 

As I have said befor; Nev is a veritable font of aviation/mechanical knowledge. That does not mean he reads the statements of others well nor that he is always correct. The point of a forum like this is the free (polite) exchange of ideas.

 

I have never bagged anyone, let alone an instructor - I relayed an actual scenario, that happened to involve a small group of instructors, at a single flying school - I didn't "bag them" I gave a factual account, using their comments and my analysis of the same, as it related to the flying of a Faeta aircraft. My comments were not about instructors (as you would know if you took the time to actually read what I said) but the human inclination to stick with the familiar, making transition to different aircraft a challenge. In frustration/discomfort it is common, for all of us, to blame the machine, rather than the operator (ourselves).

 

I am happy, as always, to respond to any reasonable polite comment/criticism of the ATEC aircraft, with factual information. If you have something to impart on this topic please do so.

 

I do not, have not & will not make unsubstantiated claims about the aircraft I am selling. All my comments have either been verified by my actual experience (in my Zephyr) or by the experience of my partner Dexter (in his Faeta NG) we do not blindly regurgitate the factory performance claims.

 

Should you wish to challenge the above statements, please do so, all I ask is that you do so using verifiable facts

 

One of the links on your website is broken. See how valuable negative feedback can be?

[skippydiesel]

Being rude here, especially to Facthunter, is not going to sell airplanes. Rude?? Please quote when I was rude. I'm rude to people on this site, but I'm not trying to sell planes. Seems that you confuse disagreement, with rudeness- I disagree with Nev and others, frequently but when I do I hope I am not rude.

 

Someone implying or directly criticising your planes is an opportunity to offer a flight to someone who cares and who can teach you something. Thanks for the advice. I think you will find that I frequently offer TIF's (in this Forum) to any who may, seriously, want to investigate the aircraft I promote. You might even learn something. It might even not be too late. Agreed - stop learning and you might as well be dead

 

I fly a Foxbat. Good support is so much more important than 5 kts or 10 kg. Foxebat! - great little aircraft, what are you implying? With every single interaction with Foxbat Australia, I am, rightly or wrongly, quietly judging. ?? Go the extra mile? Own up and help with problems? ??*Make it easy to have difficult convos with?* (So far so good.)

 

Correct me if I am wrong - there seems to be an implication in your comments, that I am "knocking" other aircraft - Not the case. I am promoting mine vigorously. In my view that means is, when I see an aircraft being promoted that's claimed to be able to cruise at say 120 knots for 18 L/h fuel used and has a stall of 44 knots or so - I jump in and say, consider my aircraft it can cruise at 134 knots @ 18 L/h and has a stall of 27 knots. This in no way implies the other aircraft is not a worth mount, it just says - Hay! look at what I am offering - wider flight envelope & fuel greater economy/ or speed.

[Downunder]

Everytime someone mentions an aircraft Skippy, you jump straight up on your soap box deriding it and promoting the aircraft YOU ARE SELLING.

I'm just really starting to get sick of it......

I'm not on this site to listen to your self promotion in EVERY THREAD at EVERY OPPORTUNITY.

I try to be tollerant but it's getting out of hand and bringing my overall enjoyment of this site down.

[RFguy]

Foxbats yes. Lots of good stuff is written about them. A Foxbat is one of the planes on my short list. I can get a reasonably priced used A22 these days, also. A used J170D would be a reasonable option but my opinion is people want too much for them used with Gen3 engines (which I would remove and fit a Gen4) . I can always make offers I guess.

[skippydiesel]

I dont know why I bother with this baseless attack but will give it another shot, just to be polite if nothing else.

 

Everytime (Gross exaggeration) someone mentions an aircraft Skippy, you jump straight up on your soap box deriding it (Please back this statement with a quote(s) or withdraw it) and promoting the aircraft YOU ARE SELLING. (Only if doing so may add to the debate)

I'm just really starting to get sick of it...... (Entirely your prerogative to mention your ill health your point is ...?)

I'm not on this site to listen to your self promotion in EVERY THREAD at EVERY OPPORTUNITY. (Again gross exaggeration, I actually only participate in a few conversations/threads, where I feel I have something to contribute. Most of my contributions have nothing whatsoever to do with selling or promoting aircraft and have everything to do with sharing experience in engine maintenance, etc)

I try to be tollerant but it's getting out of hand and bringing my overall enjoyment of this site down. (It would seem that you dont like/approve of debate, would dogma may be more your "cup of tea"?)

 

Rather than running with the pack, energised by hearsay - try actually reading what I have said in my contributions. You will find I do not deride or run down other aircraft - they all have their place, I try for factual statements. I try to be polite and not make personal comments. I may attempt a little humour and occasional sarcasm. I stay away from emotive statements ( eg I'm just really starting to get sick of it"...."I try to be tollerant"... "you jump straight up on your soap box" ...etc) as these do not in my opinion contribute to balanced debate. I am ready with an apology or acknowledgement of an incorrect statement/understanding.

Every reader of this Forum has the prerogative to question unlikely aircraft performance claims - this is not "deriding" the aircraft, which makes no claims, but is a "call out" to the claimant. If you dont like the resultant " heat" dont make claims you cant substantiate.

If you want to criticise me or my product, try factual, truthful, balanced comments - if you can.

[Roscoe]

Foxbats yes. Lots of good stuff is written about them. A Foxbat is one of the planes on my short list. I can get a reasonably priced used A22 these days, also. A used J170D would be a reasonable option but my opinion is people want too much for them used with Gen3 engines (which I would remove and fit a Gen4) . I can always make offers I guess.

Why would you remove a perfectly good gen3 engine that has been maintained in accordance with the Manufacturers guidelines?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with these Engines if maintained correctly.

I know, I have one, and so do others i know.

[RFguy]

mmm alright. there are "a broad range of views" on this... that's the best way to describe it.

[Roscoe]

mmm alright. there are "a broad range of views" on this... that's the best way to describe it.

Be careful about making statements like that without factual data. Vague assumptions and heresay doesnt cut it with me

[RFguy]

I didn't make any statements .. except that I would replace the Gen3 with a Gen4. But now I will make some statements.... There were sufficient problems at one point for a CASA directive.....that is serious on its own, regardless of merit of the CASA directives which we can all argue about . Described problems - seems to me that the engine having some fundamental design issues in my opinion (no facts provided)

 

The Gen4 is quite a different top end. ..... anyway, that's for another forum, and that topic is well worn.

[RFguy]

Roscoe, how many of the problems do you believe with that Gen engine were due to (simply) inadvertent overheating of engines (during climbs, ground running etc) , even momentarily ?

[Roscoe]

Roscoe, how many of the problems do you believe with that Gen engine were due to (simply) inadvertent overheating of engines (during climbs, ground running etc) , even momentarily ?

Engine mismanagement certainly an issue but i dont have specific details. As you said, The Jab Engine matter of 2014 has been discussed and debated at length and no need to continue that dialog now.

Lets get back to topic about purchasing an airplane!

[RFguy]

FWIW at OAT ground 12 C, during a long climb up to the stratosphere (for stalls) in the Brumby (912ULS) I managed to push the oil temp to the very top end of green (111deg C). (sustained climb, 5100 RPM)

[facthunter]

RFguy. The matter of the CASA involvement(s) are complex and quite questionable re the applicability of the statistics used. Engines being replaced were in some part due to the good deal Jab do with reworking used engines and incorporating some desired updates at the same time. THAT was used by many as evidence of engine failures. Like "How come most Jabs have engine hours lower than airframe hours?".,There was an astounding amount of JAB BASHING going on at the time even from within the RAAus some of it quite unscientific.. IF you had a solid lifter motor and ensured valve settings aren't doing something funny and ensure the flywheel is fully tensioned in the correct way, you've pretty much got it covered. Check compressions stay good or rectify. Hot on climb increase speed BEFORE it gets too hot not WHEN. like you do on ALL air cooled engines. Nev

[RFguy]

Hi Nev. yeah OK. The solid lifter engines are certainly cherished by their owners compared to the hydraulic lifter versions.

 

And yes the CASA conclusions applied were from a not statistically significant sized dataset.

 

The Jab maintenance manual (currently) seems to cover "things to watch" pretty well.

 

Glen

[facthunter]

You'd have to wonder what the oil temp would have been like on a HOT day. That's too high. Being synthetic oil there is a little more leeway but you are into it. Nev

[RFguy]

The Rotax oil temp. That was 70 kts climb from memory , quite a few bugs in the coolers I have cleaned out since then (since I wash and pre-flight and fuel the airplane every day I fly it)

Important to wash the airplane I think - you get to see any damage and look over the aircraft with keen eyes.

 

Back to airplanes. I'm going to hire the Cowra club's Brumby for some time, and also as recommended by everybody, fly different aircraft, so there is no rush.

 

First plane still to be a small Jab. My business instinct tells me to ease into the sport, regardless of the costs of selling then buying again (or keeping) .

[facthunter]

The original one, called an LSA has the throttle in a strange place. Not sure it would fit you. . The Brumby is good for now. it's a real plane. Have you checked it's basic Wt? Nev

[RFguy]

The original one, called an LSA has the throttle in a strange place. Not sure it would fit you. . The Brumby is good for now. it's a real plane. Have you checked it's basic Wt? Nev

I have not weighed it. Book says 370kg .

[facthunter]

Thanks , That's about where I thought it was.. Nev

[APenNameAndThatA]

Correct me if I am wrong - there seems to be an implication in your comments, that I am "knocking" other aircraft - Not the case. I am promoting mine vigorously. In my view that means is, when I see an aircraft being promoted that's claimed to be able to cruise at say 120 knots for 18 L/h fuel used and has a stall of 44 knots or so - I jump in and say, consider my aircraft it can cruise at 134 knots @ 18 L/h and has a stall of 27 knots. This in no way implies the other aircraft is not a worth mount, it just says - Hay! look at what I am offering - wider flight envelope & fuel greater economy/ or speed.

 

Okay, Skippydiesel. *I* think you are an @rsehole. Since you are trying to sell airplanes, you might need to be mindful that others might be as stupid as me and end up making the same stupid mistake as me...

[RFguy]

Well for the comment that was masked with asterix " ******** ", I have been searching my brain for what might the writer have intended for that placeholder.

 

in terms on the english letters there are 208e9 combinations of letters

Edited September 4, 2020 by RFguy

[APenNameAndThatA]

I have not weighed it. Book says 370kg .

 

Brumby has a high empty weight. People who like it like the room and GA-like cabin - this seems to be the main selling point, as well as it being all metal. People who buy Brumbies do not need every ounce of usable weight. If I remember correctly, Flying Australia did a review of it and said that the ailerons lacked authority, which would be an amazing thing to say about any aircraft. Disclaimer: I have 80 hrs and have never even seen a Brumby.

[facthunter]

Normally aileron authority is reflected by a "roll rate" statement to back it up. TOO much aileron can have an adverse yaw effect that differential aileron action cannot overcome. You get extra lift but a greater % more of drag. Nev

[RFguy]

so, in this plane when is that going to be an issue ? During landing (low airspeed, low prop thrust- ie low control effectivness ) when a high amount of roll is "instantaneously" be needed to counter a Xwind gust ?

[Kenlsa]

Skippy, don't worry about it......seems that you have been nominated as the new whipping boy since they flogged Don out of the way.

Ken