Arched containers cover fabric hangar?

[NT5224]

Hi Folks!

 

What do people think of those big arched container cover structures as hangars? They're some kind of UV proof fabric I believe. Just asking because I think I just bought one...?

 

Are they any good? Pros and Cons?

 

Alan

[onetrack]

Alan, there are covered structures and covered structures. There are Chinese-made ones and Australian-made ones.

There are ones with the cheapest fabric that they can find, and ones with covering material so tough, it's still good after 20 yrs out in the weather.

There are shelters with the cheapest tensioning arrangements you could ever see, and ones with tensioning arrangements that are designed to work and hold up against decent storms.

There are ones with the thinnest tubing that they can find that will hold up, until a good willy-willy comes through - or there are ones with real thickness in their tubing, that resist storm events.

There are structures with no end walls, so the wind howls straight through, and there are structures that come complete with end walls, so the wind doesn't scream straight through.

There are covered structures that are designed to be mounted on the top of containers, so you can have storage as well as cover. There are covered structures designed to just be attached to the ground.

 

I'm a little surprised that you don't know what you bought? Is this something you do often? I know I've occasionally bought a "crate of surprises", but not without generally having some idea of what's in there.

 

The Dome Shelters are regarded as the best you can buy, the mining companies buy a lot of them, for parts and component storage and for short-lifespan workshops (where they are dismantled, and then moved to another location).

 

https://www.domeshelter.com.au/

[shajen]

I’ve had my hanger for 5 years now. It’s actually a greenhouse, but has handled all weather thrown at it. australian made, although we erected it ourselves.

[Tasmag]

Shaken,

 

Would you have a link to that greenhouse manufacturer, interested in exploring it a little further.

 

Mike

[old man emu]

 

Do you go forward to get out, or backwards? It's just not clear from the photos.

[shajen]

We push it out, turn 90degrees away from hangar before starting it. After flying stop again 90degrees to hangar opening, turn it around and push back in. Guess you could nose or tail in, we’ve always done it this way.

The hangar is augered into the ground So, in theory, isn’t a permanent structure. This is in case the councils ever start getting involved. The front is the door which rolls with a winder. There are guide poles that can be seen in photo that are removable.

they are from David Gill hothouses in Bagshot, Vic. Not expensive, and can be different sizes. Mines 6m deep and 10m wide.

good luck,

Jenny

[onetrack]

Interesting design, thanks for the info, Jenny. I understand that greenhouses are in huge demand today, it's a roaring business, crop protection is vital against bad weather, and they really pay off.

Some of the larger vegetable growers cover all their crops completely, and some of the greenhouses run into many hundreds of thousands of dollars in cost. They look quite flimsy, but apparently they're more robust than it first appears.

 

http://www.davidgillgreenhouses.com.au/?p=home

[old man emu]

 

Shajen, The Environmental Protection police are issuing with a caution. A wooden pallet is not a suitable bund for a 204 litre drum of avgas. Please place the drum in a bund of sufficient capacity (110% of the volume of the container) to prevent pollutants entering the soil and groundwater.

[shajen]

Are you for real??

[kgwilson]

Crikey I'll have to get bunds for all my 20 litre jerrycans and my 5 litre one for the lawnmower. I was thinking of an old bathtub but it has a plughole so I'll need another bund for that as well. At my hangar Environmental Police are shot on sight and then thrown in the bathtub while I head for the hills after despatching a well aimed lit match.

[shajen]

Love your reply. Reassuring, was quite unsure for a bit. Thanks kgwilson. ?

[old man emu]

Are you for real??

 

I know that it seems so pedantic, but you are in the catchment area for part of the Melbourne water supply. The chances of 204 litres of avgas reaching the dam through the ground water system is probably pretty remote, and there's likely to be more pollutants coming off the roads in the area. However, I posted that half in jest, just to remind people to consider the effects of their actions, no matter what they do.

[onetrack]

OME does have a point. Proper fuel storage and your obligations under EPA and Worksafe regulations deem that you should have spill containment measures in place.

Polyethylene spill trays and drum bunds are readily available and their cost is not prohibitive.

One has to envision the worst event that could possibly happen, as regards a fuel disaster.

 

Even though you may be extremely careful in fuel handling, one has to be aware of malicious damage by trespassers/thieves, severe storm events, and even (unexpected) drum fracture or puncturing.

Vehicles can be accidentally backed into drums and hole them. I've seen a bloke back up to a 50,000L fibreglass water tank in a Landrover with his door partly open, and the edge of the door caught on the tank wall and went straight through it, promptly releasing about 30,000L of water, and nearly drowning him!

 

There are also insurance angles you probably need to address. A fire extinguisher capable of stopping any fuel fire, should be placed within a reasonable distance of any substantial amount of fuel storage (and 200L is regarded as "substantial").

These kinds of things raise their ugly head after an "insurance event", and it pays to do a regular audit to ensure compliance with both State laws and regulations, and Local Govt bylaws, as regards fuel storage, when you have more than "minor storage" levels. Jerrycans are "minor storage"levels, 200L drums aren't.

 

https://www.epa.vic.gov.au/-/media/epa/files/publications/1698.pdf

 

https://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/resources/code-practice-storage-and-handling-dangerous-goods

[old man emu]

Geez, Onetrack! I was only having a poke at shajen in fun, but you do raise some of the flow-on effects of improper handling of dangerous goods of which we should always be aware.

 

In relation to environment protection, earlier this year I pointed out that in a video posted here a pilot was seen throwing a fuel sample onto the ground at Camden Airport. That video was a bit old, but now due to the Airports (Environment Protection) Regulations, that is prohibited at Camden, Bankstown, Essendon, Jandakot, Parafield and Archerfield, which are all owned by the Federal Government.

 

I will admit that the probability of a major spill from a drum of fuel located where it is in shajen's hangar is very low, but the possibility is there. The attachment is a Risk Assessment matrix that is used to assess environmental risks.

Risk Assessment Matrix.docx

[skippydiesel]

Hi OME - I think you will find Camden & Bankstown were sold off, by the Fed's, quite some years ago now. Now in "private" hands, I think Sydney Airports Co.

[onetrack]

OME - Spilling 200L of avgas could never be classed as a "major spill", but it does have ramifications as regards explosive vapours setting a very dangerous situation - and soaking into sandy soil means it will end up contaminating groundwater.

If Jenny has a bore anywhere near the hangar, it is likely the bore water would become contaminated.

Aliphhatic and aromatic hydrocarbons (including benzene, xylene and toluene) are the major ingredients of petrol, and all these are regarded as quite carcinogenic, if breathed in, or ingested via groundwater.

 

Service station underground tank installations today involve serious efforts at preventing fuel leaks from getting into the subsoil, via double layers of geotextile, with sand between them.

The sand is constantly monitored for hydrocarbons, and if any appear, the servo owner is obliged to have the tanks immediately dug up and replaced. The monitors can pick up as little as a few litres of fuel leakage.

Fibreglass tanks have taken over from steel tanks as the preferred choice for underground fuel storage tanks today, due to their elimination of steel corrosion.

 

My workshop is in a heavy industrial area of a Perth suburb. We have a main stormwater drain nearby. The drain is monitored constantly by the EPA, as the drain empties into the Swan River.

Naturally, the Water Corporation has regular sumps catching pollutants that end up in the drain. What is surprising is how low the levels of contaminants are, that they can pick up.

We occasionally have local Council inspectors rolling up and asking if anyone has thrown some coolant, fuel or oil on the ground in the area, as they have picked up petroleum contaminants in the drain, and are looking for the source.

[NT5224]

You blokes!

 

C'mn, give poor Jenny a break. Which of us hasn't filled from a rusty drum on the edge of a cleared patch of scrub before?

 

You've got me terrified of posting any more pics of my own in case you throw the rule book at me! ?

 

I for one thought Jenny had a tidy little hangar set up, just the kind of innovation we should be supporting if we want to encourage fellow aviators operating at reasonable cost.

 

So Shajen, thanks for posting your pics... Im just setting about putting up my own hangar and this has been really helpful...?

 

Are you flying from your own strip? If so, could I see a pic of that?

 

Alan

[SplitS]

Wow you post a cool looking hanger and the keyboard police find an issue with your fuel storage.

One of my cars holds more than 200l should I always park it over a storage drum??

Cars leave oil on the road and the road is made from oil. 200l drum is nothing to worry about.

I have a 25,000 liter diesel tank standing out side FFS.

[onetrack]

If you're located in a remote area, the dangers and ramifications of fuel and oil spills are greatly lessened - however, the penalties still apply.

But if you're located near population centres, in a waterway or catchment area that leads to a major river, a water supply dam, or a recreational lake, you'll only find out when a disaster overtakes you, just how savage the penalties are, for fuel and oil spills - particularly when it can be proven you ignored the State and Local Govt laws and regulations, when it comes to fuel storage safety and handling.

Remember, it doesn't have to be you that causes the spill, you just become the responsible party they target. It's all about hammering negligence and abdication of responsibilities.

My stepdaughter works as a senior OH&S manager for a major oil company, and they pull gas and condensate out of the desert, in the Cooper Basin - but you ought to see the penalties applicable to them, even for a small spill in the desert.

[old man emu]

Hi OME - I think you will find Camden & Bankstown were sold off, by the Fed's, quite some years ago now. Now in "private" hands, I think Sydney Airports Co.

 

No, the airports I listed are still "owned" by the Federal Government. They have simply leased them to Big Business who set up management companies like Sydney Airports Ltd. These leaseholders are bound by the Airports Act, and the Airports (Environment Protection) Regulations come under that Act. Other Regional airports have basically been handed over to local government who are the rule makers for their particular airports.

 

The biggest problem with these Environment Protection Regulations, not only on airports but throughout industrial areas is that the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999 (EPBC Act) is the Australian Government's environmental legislation, which came into force in 1999 and was followed by the States and Territories. Before that any rules were not so stringent. Everybody just chucked pollutants on the ground or into drains. Have a look around the old hangars on airports, or around road or rail transport depots. The level of pollution is incredible. Once the EPBC Act came into force, and its daughter legislation in other places, a whole new industry evolved. Like all regulators there are many for whom the rules are black and white. If pollutants are found coming from your premises, you are responsible. Never mind that from the 1900's industrial activity, not necessarily the same as yours, has been carried out on the same site. You might be punctilious now, but what can you do about prior occupants?

 

One of my cars holds more than 200l should I always park it over a storage drum??

 

Fuel within the normal fuel tank of an engine, either stationary or as part of a vehicle is not subject to the rules for storage of dangerous goods.

 

I have a 25,000 liter diesel tank standing out side FFS.

 

Suitably bunded I hope.

 

Wow you post a cool looking hanger and the keyboard police find an issue with your fuel storage.

 

Crickey! You post a tongue-in-cheek comment and those who don't know the poster's sick sense of humour go off on a tangent.

 

Actually, I find shajen's solution to hangarage excellent. That looks like a very economical way to protect an aircraft, and the interior is indeed kept very tidy. Kudos to her!

[NT5224]

I had a good laugh at OME original post #8 about the fuel drum, but like most of us I reckon there's huge irony in the application of regulations.

 

Its odd that our regulators are so zealous about storage of fuel when its legal purpose is to be ignited in an internal combustion engine and component elements spewed out into our environment, where it will fall as rain and so pollute the same catchment they are so excited about protecting from the drum.

 

Alan ?

[shajen]

Ok, OME I actually do appreciate the info and have learned quite a few things which I really didn’t know, nor had really thought about. And I did think you were half having a poke at me, but wow, my initial reaction when you said “busted ... the epa will be paying me a visit” I thought heck, are you for real. So , yeah, just a tad worried, I do know councils and govt departments can go a little power crazy?

thanks everyone else for backing me up, but I do think we all should realise there’s always rules for a reason, and litigation often follows...

I know I’m lucky where I am, and had a beautiful fly over mt Buller this morning. Hardly any snow left though☃️

[shajen]

And, yes, I will look further into my fuel storage situation. Thanks all!

[old man emu]

I will look further into my fuel storage situation.

 

If the drum leaks, you wouldn't want all the fuel to go to waste, would you. At least with a bund you can recover some and use it in your car or lawn mower.

[NT5224]

@shajen. Airstrip?