Who knows where you are going?

[WayneL]

When you go flying, who do you notify about your plans! Comments from GA pilots and RAA pilots please. Do you lodge an air services flight plan, nominate a sartime, maybe you use the flight note form and give to friends and/or relative. Or do you just do a print out of you nav plan. Maybe you just make a phone call before departing. What about a local flight returning to your departure airfield, you may have departed to the South but ended up flying around to the Northern side. Persons may have seen you depart to the South and you haven't returned hours later ( after fuel duration) and you are not contactable....where are they going to start looking first? Does your club or school ask you the leave details of your intended flight even if it is only local?

Wayne

[pmccarthy]

My local flights may involve two hours or so and a couple of landings at nearby airfields before returning. I don’t tell anyone where I am going because I usually don’t know until I am in the air. I carry an emergency beacon and my wife can track me on her phone. And I am always in good radio range of Centre. For trips I lodge a flight plan with NAIPS.

[turboplanner]

Good subject, it seems, from comments over the years that many people don't bother to do any flight plan at all.

Some people don't care if they're not found; others have never been lost or had a forced landing so they use that logic to ignore even the basics which could save their life.

Believe it or not there are some pilots out in the country who only ever fly by roads; they don't want to be restricted by having to work things out.

If you fly by roads there's a good chance you'll be found if you're forced down, but one of the basics of flying is the freedom to go wherever you want to go, so not only is it likely that there won't be nearby roads, but it's more probable that you'll finish up down the back of a country property, because they all face the roads.

The next issue is that you may not be able to make a smooth landing, and you may finish up with serious injuries requiring urgent hospital treatment; if you can't be found you can't be treated.

There are plenty of ATSB reports which show that (a) the person didn't know how to activate his ELB, (b) the battery was flat © he couldn't reach it, and plenty of examples where someone died because he wasn't found in time.

VH MDX is the classic example of no one knowing where to look, and the aircraft never being found, despite the fact that it was reputed to be carrying $600,000 in bookies' takings on a relatively short eturn over the mountains.

Full Reporting was exceptionally good for keeping your Navigation and check systems right up to date, becaise every mistake you made got you into hot water, but within 15 minutes of you missing a checkpoint, emergency services were activated and on the way to your last reported point to search down your designated track. That was dumped because of cost, and to move full responsibility to the pilot.

SARTIME is a big psychological burden because it traps you if, tired, you leave the airport without cancelling it.

Today, you can leave advice anywhere you want with any information you want and you can include likely alternatives - doesn't seem that hard to do.

[Thruster88]

Ozrunways or similar is a good back up snail trail in the event one cannot give a mayday call or activate their ELT. Mobile phone coverage is required.

 

MDX a c210 was on a flight from Brisbane to Sydney and on radar at night in poor weather when it diverted into the hills after a coastal clearance was denied. It's general location is known.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I don't want the government to have anything to do with me.

A few years ago, a German couple got stuck near lake Eyre . One died because they believed the book they had filled in at the pub would lead to their rescue. In reality, they would have been far better off telling their parents their plans. Nobody looked at that book anymore.

So my advice is to tell somebody who cares where you plan to be.

[walrus]

Given the behaviour of the ATSB in investigating accidents as evidenced by my knowledge of one fatal helicopter tragedy, given to me by surviving family members, there is little point in leaving evidence behind. They will make it up to suit themselves anyway.

 

As for AsA, if it would make their job easier, tell them. Best bet for rescue is a PLB, spot tracker a sat phone and a worried relative.

 

As for CASA, I. don’t think they can be trusted NOT to use any data you supply to crucify you - based on the evidence of their latest fishing expedition regarding careflight pilots.

 

To my way of thinking - based upon being an observer of a criminal investigation involving someone I know recently, any data you provide, even the most innocuous things, can and will be used against you. Provide nothing except what is required by law.

Edited September 15, 2020 by walrus

[turboplanner]

Given the behaviour of the ATSB in investigating accidents as evidenced by my knowledge of one fatal helicopter tragedy, given to me by surviving family members, there is little point in leaving evidence behind. They will make it up to suit themselves anyway.

 

As for AsA, if it would make their job easier, tell them. Best bet for rescue is a PLB, spot tracker a sat phone and a worried relative.

 

As for CASA, I. don’t think they can be trusted NOT to use any data you supply to crucify you - based on the evidence of their latest fishing expedition regarding careflight pilots.

 

To my way of thinking - based upon being an observer of a criminal investigation involving someone I know recently, any data you provide, even the most innocuous things, can and will be used against you. Provide nothing except what is required by law.

Have a look at the regulations applying to the flights you might do. I don't think you'll ne supplying information to the government.

Same for what Bruce does.

These days you have a choice as I mentioned in #3

[kgwilson]

I carry my Spot Tracker on every flight even if it is only circuits. I often don't know where I am going until I get in the air when going for a jolly. My wife (or anyone I give the URL name to) can track me in real time with a satellite GPS location and height snail trail at 5 min intervals overlaid on Google Maps . I can send a check in email if I land at an airfield to say I'm OK. Mobile reception is not required as it is satellite based. If I land out & am OK I can send a predetermined email to my chosen support team to say I am OK but need assistance. An SOS goes via Globalstar to the Rescue Coordination Centre.

 

I often don't actually tell anyone I am going flying, even my wife as I don't know myself till I get the aerodrome & decide & there is no-one there to tell anyway.

[spacesailor]

I used to register my yacht before going coastal, BUT they changed things and wanted the Names & particular's of All aboard.

So I gave that away and only informed coastal radio, while cruising. They are great, Far FAR better than Canberra.

( how is good canberra. took away High frequency radio that you would book customs while a day away from landfall, to short rang VHF, Just so they can hit you with a fine for Not Informing them you are coming in To Them , )

spacesailor

Edited September 16, 2020 by spacesailor

[Bosi72]

First, I suggest contacting flight school and get the instructor to demonstrate correct procedures.

 

As a fresh PPL, I submit a Flight plan via NAIPS every time I fly outside aerodrome Training Area (e.g. over ~10nm). It is mandatory if you are flying VFR into C and D controlled airspaces (but not in E and G), for example doing City orbits (AIP ENR 1.10-4 para 2.3, 2.4).

 

So far I had two phone calls from the Briefing office :)

1. forgetting to cancel SARTIME - local distractions even though I had reminder in phone,

2. not ticking some box in NAIPS plan, but all sorted out over the phone whilst taxiing.

 

Many of my flights had diversions, so quick radio call to MLCEN with "flight plan amendments, no change to SARTIME" and you fly wherever you want.

 

Regarding surveillance equipment, you can buy portable adsb-out e.g. SkyEcho2 and be seen by other aircrafts (or your family/friends on the ground). You need ICAO hex address of your aircraft.

For survival equipment, I carry PLB, handheld VHF, Satphone, or marine handheld if close to water...

 

Regardless, always Aviate-Navigate-Communicate, in that particular order.

 

 

Safe landings !

Cheers

[GraemeK]

It is mandatory if you are flying VFR into C and D controlled airspaces (but not in E and G), for example doing City orbits (AIP ENR 1.10-4 para 2.3, 2.4).

 

You can go into controlled airspace without a flight plan - the get out clause is para 2.7 (2.4 allows flight notification by radio):

 

"Abbreviated details for operations in controlled airspace may be advised by radio if the flight is to operate locally, or operations will be for a brief duration."

[waraton]

I use oz runways and email the plan to 3 people if it is a long trip. I also text my wife the flight time and direction for local flights plus 30 minutes, and have a free tracking app on my phone which will shows her where I am in flight and on the ground. If no service on the ground my last known point in flight is available. I also carry a KTI PLB in my pocket. I regularly fly in remote and isolated locations. I always have 3l of water per person and muesli bars just in case.

[Bosi72]

You can go into controlled airspace without a flight plan - the get out clause is para 2.7 (2.4 allows flight notification by radio):

 

"Abbreviated details for operations in controlled airspace may be advised by radio if the flight is to operate locally, or operations will be for a brief duration."

 

 

Then read the keywords from the next 3-4 paragraphs telling how they treat a pilot without a flight plan, or submitting plan via radio: "...may avoid delays... acceptance subject to ATC workload.. frequency congestion.. will not be accepted.. etc..."

 

Basically, they're telling you - use NAIPS.

[kgwilson]

You can go into controlled airspace without a flight plan - the get out clause is para 2.7 (2.4 allows flight notification by radio):

 

"Abbreviated details for operations in controlled airspace may be advised by radio if the flight is to operate locally, or operations will be for a brief duration."

Works for me. Gold Coast can get a bit shirty but who wants to go there anyway & then there's Mascot. Easy with no traffic now I'm told but who wants to pay the $335.00 fee. Apparently some do just for the experience.

[SplitS]

I never submit a flight plan VFR and fly into class D airspace regularly. Occasionally call up an get clearance to go thru class C never had an issue. In my experience if you are polite and professional ATC will accommodate you.

This is one of the best guides for class D airspace.

http://www.grahamswebdesign.com/archerfield_visual_pilot_guide.pdf

How many pilots have been saved because they have submitted a NAIPS??? I am tipping almost no one.

[turboplanner]

How many pilots have been saved because they have submitted a NAIPS??? I am tipping almost no one.

"Submitting a NAIPS" isn't something I've heard before, and there's a difference between preparing a flight plan and submitting a flight plan.

Having said that, pilots saved by preparing a flight plan would probably run into hundreds over the years.

[kgwilson]

Flight plans used to be quite cumbersome before the advent of the internet even when there was Avfax. Submitting a plan via Avplan or Ozrunways is easy, NAIPS not quite so. But the simple lodgement of a Sarwatch is just a quick phone call. You just have to remember to terminate it. Otherwise if you just happen to be close to CTR & decide you want to go through just give ATC a call & go. I have only been refused a couple of times due to their high workload at the time.

[walrus]

SplitS do you fly a VH registered aircraft? Otherwise it’s illegal to enter controlled airspace without a written exemption.

[Downunder]

SplitS do you fly a VH registered aircraft? Otherwise it’s illegal to enter controlled airspace without a written exemption.

Factory built RAA aircraft enter controlled airspace legally all the time without any exemption.

[SplitS]

I fly VH most of the time.

[Ironpot]

Great subject.

What are the reasons why we don't lodge a flightplan each and every time we take to the air (excepting CCTS)?

[RFguy]

SplitS do you fly a VH registered aircraft? Otherwise it’s illegal to enter controlled airspace without a written exemption.

NO IT IS NOT. It is not about the aircraft it is about the PILOT . (radio and transponder mandatory, of course) .

RA pilots while not strictly by the book can get clearance from ATC to pass through CTA if they do the right thing and behave well and use correct radio method.... (I hear it regularly in Canberra)

[Downunder]

Great subject.

What are the reasons why we don't lodge a flightplan each and every time we take to the air (excepting CCTS)?

I fly to be free. Not contained and locked in .......

[turboplanner]

Great subject.

What are the reasons why we don't lodge a flightplan each and every time we take to the air (excepting CCTS)?

You're only required to lodge a flight plan for certain flights.

 

Preparing/doing a flight plan involves things like fuel burn, weight and balance, route, altitudes, frequencies, NOTAMS, etc - like a checklist.

It's a lot easier to do it at home than try to work out what to do in the air when the tank starts to run dry, or what frequency, or where an alternative is if you are caught by time or weather, calms the cockpit down a lot on a long flight where the weather is not going your way.

 

I never took anything with me when flying in the training area, because nothing ever happend out there and anyway I knew the way home; just follow the coast. Then I read two incident reports; one about a pilot who took off in good weather and fog unexpectedly rolled in, and he landed on a partly completed freeway. The other was a pilotcalling inbound at Moorabbin and being told it was closed due to weather. He was short on fuel and didn't know where else to go so he turned around looking for an airfield, but visibility closed down even more and he was pretty much on empty, so he turned back to Morrabin, told the tower controller to get stuffed and landed in what vis was available.

[GraemeK]

Basically, they're telling you - use NAIPS.

 

In practice, not an issue though. Going into Moorabbin I never file a plan (unless it's part of a much longer flight, for which I'll normally file a plan anyway), into Essendon usually but not always. Never had a problem - in fact the only time I was refused an immediate clearance was on a flight plan, and that was because of conflicting traffic.