1/2 Volkswagon alternative

[Tigershark21]

Hi all,

 

I checked past forum posts and found nothing sepcifically on this, so thought I'd share this because it might be a good 57Hp alternative to the slightly less powerful and rough 1/2 Volkswagon or other types you are still sitting on the fence about.

 

I've been following Pete Plumb's work in the USA for a couple of years now.

 

The half Continental O-200 (uncertified) in a two cylinder configuration known as the "Pegasus DP-1 / O-100" It's also a fully balanced engine which is a plus.

It uses all continental parts you can get off the shelf, except the new casing, crank, cam shaft, new lifters and hydraulic units, rods and pistons available all as a kit. Build it yourself, or get someone to do it for you.

 

I like to continually search and maintain an open mind on engine types that are out there and I think this might be a good choice for one of my projects. 

Hope this info may also help others.

 

http://flypegasuspower.com/wp/specifications/

 

 

[mnewbery]

 

[pylon500]

Not really sure this is an 'alternative' to a half VW?

Even if you cut the biggest VW in half (2400cc), you end up with a 1200cc chaff cutter, and when you consider that half an 0-200 is a 1600cc, why not just use a 1600cc VW?

Probably around the same weight, would run smoother and use about the same fuel.

That said, for similar weight again, you could use a 1200cc Rotax (912UL) and get 80hp with a more effective prop and only two thirds the fuel burn.

If you only want 56hp, I'd probably go up to 65hp and use a Rotax582 for just under $9k, new in the box.

[onetrack]

Aircraft engines are all about the most HP produced for the lightest weight, so I couldn't imagine a 1600cc VW being very competitive in the weight stakes - whereas the Contys and Lycs are designed with weight reduction being a very important area in the design criteria.

[mnewbery]

Having two slick magnetos off an O-200 then only using half the poles seems a bit of overkill. I agree this looks like a solution in search of a problem.

I wonder if the motivation to use a half O-200 is more about the perceived availability of parts and experience, mounting/packaging options and instrumentation rather than using an engine like the 582. A couple of notes to consider - the 582 needs liquid cooling which implies a temperature gauge and a radiator plus it has parallel cylinders and its a two stroke which may not suit the aesthetics of the build. Yo' money, yo' choices

[facthunter]

I've flown and worked with  2 strokes but it's really a different world of reliability.. If you look after them , fine. They are light  and powerful for their weight. Nev

[pylon500]

Big clunky magnetos with two spare poles...🤔

I wonder if you could swap all the electronic ignition off a 582, and fit to the back of (any) half flat motors?

Not only a smaller more compact magneto system, but you get an alternator as well 😏

[facthunter]

Permanent magnets are fine in magnetos but should only be used in very simple dynamo's as they are ridiculous to regulate. Converting to DC for various needs particularly a battery is essential. IF you choose to use some AC how do you control the Hertz? as the engine speed varies.

 The spare poles in a magneto don't have to mean heavier magnets The best magnetos have rotating magnets .LESS brushes and less vibration to the coil and easier to test and repair and no current flow through the bearings .Nev

[Thruster88]

Another good option is the BMW motorcycle boxer twin with a rotax C gearbox. I have flown a thruster t500 with this engine and it was smooth and similar performance to a 582.

 

[Wirraway]

On 05/10/2020 at 1:08 PM, Thruster88 said:

Another good option is the BMW motorcycle boxer twin with a rotax C gearbox. I have flown a thruster t500 with this engine and it was smooth and similar performance to a 582.

 

Can you give any info, please, on how old the engine was when it was installed, reliabiloity, TBO etc, etc. There was an a/c for sale 12 or so months ago with a BMW engine, don't think it was a Thruster though. Thanks

[Thruster88]

22 minutes ago, Wirraway said:

Can you give any info, please, on how old the engine was when it was installed, reliabiloity, TBO etc, etc. There was an a/c for sale 12 or so months ago with a BMW engine, don't think it was a Thruster though. Thanks

It was along time ago 2000? and i have no knowledge of its history. Unfortunately it was  damaged shortly after I flew it and shipped off to Tony Hayes for repair. I don't know what became of it. My feeling is it would be a good thing re reliability. It would not be legal for a Thruster, not sure if approval can be achieved.  

[mnewbery]

 

https://issuu.com/contact.magazine/docs/alternative_engines_volume_4_previe

 

 

[Kenlsa]

An R90S! Good god, they are worth their weight in gold.....

Ken

[mnewbery]

You could say the same thing about a Holden red motor or a Ford Model T engine now. Doesn't mean its good for putting in an aeroplane, or ever was. Yet, people do.The model T was used for the Pietenpol Sky Scout and the Ford Model A went in to the Pietenpol Air Camper. 

 

The Model T engine was built for 19 years. Lord knows how many were made … one estimate was ~300,000. The O-200 started in 1947 and is still in production *cough, argh remember Cessna SkyCatcher?* All variants would number around 20,000

So where did all the Model T engines go?

[Yenn]

There was  BMW motorcycle engine used in a US homebuilt years ago. It used the original gearbox with 2nd gear selected and fixed in that configuration. From memory it was a Nieuport and had a large diameter prop.

[mnewbery]

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/317518/flying-wheels-motorcycle-engine-planes/3922907/

 

In my opinion this is a very very silly idea

Edited October 8, 2020 by mnewbery
Needed a quote

[onetrack]

Quote

So where did all the Model T engines go?

 

 

This is where they all went - into the foundries for WW2 armaments.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by onetrack

[facthunter]

Running an engine at high power through any of it's gears, the  gear  won't last long. T model Ford motors are actually quite light compared to most others of the day and they shaved excess metal from the blocks as well. They actually made MILLIONS of them. Plenty are still running and there's not reason they can't be running another 100 years from now. Nev

[onetrack]

There were 16 million Model T's built. The design of the Model T engine reflected the obsessive cost-paring attitude of Henry Ford - an attitude that is still current with the Ford Motor Co today.

The Model T engine had no water pump, it was cooled by thermosyphon, it had no troublesome distributor, it had no oil pump (all components were splash fed) and the carburettor was a model of simplicity.

The carby had no accelerator pump, and the engine had no fuel pump, the fuel was gravity fed. Weight was pared from every single Model T engine component, yet the engine was still exceptionally reliable and robust.

But the bottom line is, the Model T engine produced just 20 HP, running a compression ratio of 4.5:1. Hot rodders could get a considerable power increase from the Model T, but they are extremely RPM limited due to their simplistic design.

[mnewbery]

...but it and many conversions like it had problems with the propeller flogging the crankshaft at the oil seal. The model T engine had its crank flange held in place by the sump pan. I much prefer the look of a conversion with the Rotax box on it for this reason

[facthunter]

Few  engines would have an adequate thrust bearing for a propeller as supplied for car use. 

   The cost "paring"is FORDs chosen market. A good thing at an affordable price Those sales figures reflect customer acceptance  over many years. of "T" production. They used vanadium steel in the crank and and front axle etc ' An innovative and high performance metal for the time.

  Their first V8 in 1932 was to counter Chevrolets smooth OHV six introduced in 1929,  at a competitive price. The compact V8  featured a one piece casting Side Valve block configuration. A masterpiece of pattern and foundry work  for any car. even now. Ford and the V8 became synonymous.. A test in the Desert ran 1,000 miles a day for 30 days. It took me a long time to appreciate this stuff. I've done a lot of work on flathead Fords in the past  and still work on T's and A's . Re the 20 HP that may be a "rated" thing, not BHP on a dyno .You'd need much more than that to power a Piet  but it swung a large prop at fairly low Revs. to get good thrust (adequate?? ).Nev

[pluessy]

FYI, Pete Plumb (O-100 creator) has passed away a few months ago. The O-100 project might continue if there is a suitable buyer for the IP and tooling/processes.

 

1/2 VW output ranges from 28hp (840cm3) to 45hp (1200cm3) and weigh arounf 39kg (single magneto, direct drive, without electric start and alternator) to 47kg (direct drive, dual ingition, starter & alternator)

So, if you are looking for an alternative for the 1/2 VW, there is very little out there in that hp range and weight. HKS 700E (55-60hp), Verner JCV-360 (35hp), Hexadyne P60 (60hp), Jabiru 1600 (56hp) and a few more have all gone down the gurgler. The Kiwi design Aviator HFA seems at a standstill since 2015.

 

The few options in the 4-stroke 25-40hp range are converted industrial V-twins, either direct drive or with re-drive. There are a couple available complete from Europe, primarily designed for powered chutes and hovercrafts.

[spacesailor]

I have heard (maybe just a rumour ) that the  HKS 700E motor was recalled for a defect.

Don't shoot the messenger !.

spacesailor

[pluessy]

I'm also just the messenger🙂

[440032]

Jabiru 1100 40hp (a one off special in 2006, never produced).