I need some guidance.

[spacesage]

I am a new pilot.

 

I have 41 hours, 20 or so are command hours.

 

I had my first real aviation scare the other day. On takeoff in a rotax 912 powered aircraft I saw a lot of smoke (I know it was smoke because I could smell it.) at about 300 ft, coming from the engine. I immediatley checked my gauges all which were still good, EGT, CHT, FP, OP. I made a decision to go around in the circuit and make for the runway. I climbed to 500ft and issued a mayday. I made the circuit a very small one and made my approach, smoke still almost obscuring my view. I touched down with about 60m of runway remaining, before touchdown I had shut the engine off. I applied full brake resulting in a wheel lockup and slide. I over ran the runway onto the grass overun, came to a stop and very quickly exited a very smokey aircraft.

 

The aircraft was undamaged save for a flat spot on each of the main gear tyres.

 

Upon inspection it was apparent that the coolant had overflowed and was cooking off against the exhaust manifold.

 

The pre-flight of the aircraft revealed a high coolant level but still below the high mark of the coolant tank.

 

Upon landing all gauges were still good. I looked before shutting the engine down.

 

The aircraft was a private hire, my question is this, and I think I already know the answer. Should this be reported to RA-AUS as an incident? I have not been asked to fill out a statement of any description. I dont know whether the hire establishment has already done this. I have tried to contact both people running the hire place with no success in the intervening two days.

 

Apart from scaring the absolute crap out of me, I want to be a good and professional pilot and I am very confused at this point.

 

Any input would be appreciated.

 

 

[Ultralights]

in short. yes. report it. it wont matter if the flying establishment reports it as well, but the cause might be an issue that otehrs have suffered and might require thurther investigation from the manufacturers or whoever. so the best policy is to report everything

 

 

[motzartmerv]

scarey scarey..i'd report it mate.. the fact is your flight was cut short due to a mechanical problem, you gave a mayday call, so the **** was getting prepared to hit the fan so to speak..good job by the way on gettin back down in one piece..

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Also try and find the reason for the overflow, loose cap, Blown head gasket pressurising coolant??? coolant clean or contaminated?

 

just a thought

 

ozzie

 

 

[numptie]

I'd definitely be reporting it. At least the powers that be will have a record of it should it ever happen to anyone else, and it may aid in any future investigations for ADs etc.

 

We had a similar problem in a Gazelle a few years ago. Ended up instead of using straight Glycol, the L2 used a 50/50 mix with water which was enough to raise the temperature sky high.

 

Bob

 

 

[TechMan]

Yes, please report it. The form is available on the RA-Aus site under http://www.raa.asn.au/docs/index.html

 

As a mayday was issued, CASA will get on to us also to find out what the problem was.

 

If you can also please provide a description of what the problem was (if there was another issue other than it being too full), after investigation, please put that in also.

 

Chris

 

 

[spacesage]

Thanks for your input, I will be reporting it to RA-AUS. I know that the coolant definitley overflowed through the overflow on the reservoir tank. My thoughts are this.

 

Why did it overflow? The coolant was DEFINITELY below the max mark.

 

Was there a blockage? CHT did not suggest this. But a lot of coolant came out.

 

Oil and Fuel drain both exit the aircraft underneath, taking potentially flamable agents away from hot engine surfaces. Why is this not the case for coolant? If it overflows it pours all over the engine creating the illusion of an engine fire.

 

In my situation I had every right to cut fuel flow and force land the aircraft in an area that would have definitely caused damage to the aircraft and probably injury or worse to me. I broke the rules and continued flying based on normal gauge readings.

 

This incident has left me very conflicted about my future in aviation. I have always loved it, but this has highlighted the risks we take hiring other peoples aircraft. This is not a past time for anyone who is negligent or cavalier in any way. How do I take my friends and family in an aircraft I dont feel safe in? How can I be assured that the aircraft I am flying in is safe? People I have trusted to provide guidance have let me down.

 

I have decided not to hire those aircraft again. I am looking for a new school in the Brisbane area that can be reccomended by popular groups. My other option is to go back into GA and obtain my PPL. More expensive but I know the maintenance is more structured and can be audited by the pilot at any time.

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

[snip]

This incident has left me very conflicted about my future in aviation. I have always loved it, but this has highlighted the risks we take hiring other peoples aircraft. This is not a past time for anyone who is negligent or cavalier in any way. How do I take my friends and family in an aircraft I dont feel safe in? How can I be assured that the aircraft I am flying in is safe? People I have trusted to provide guidance have let me down.

G'day Spacesage,

 

I think that it's normal and natural to feel uncertain after an incident like this. Indeed many people hold the view that a state of chronic unease is the key to safety in aviation.

 

After the "dust has settled" however I think it would be useful to review this incident with someone like a really good RAAus CFI. Work through what you did, what the outcomes were, what the causes are (after they have been investigated) and come to your view then.

 

I recently lost a family member in a mid-air. That person was at a very similar age and stage of training to my daughter. I certainly had a good hard think about safety - yet again - after that incident. Some pretty meaningful conversations ensued with my daughter. She very much took it to heart.

 

But a very wise and safety conscious friend of mine said to me "you have to do all you can to promote safety and to be safe, but if you let things like this worry you then you will never fly." He is right, and that is too much for either me or my daughter to lose.

 

I hope that this works through OK for you.

 

Kind regards

 

Mike

 

 

[jguscott]

Thanks for your input, I will be reporting it to RA-AUS. I know that the coolant definitley overflowed through the overflow on the reservoir tank. My thoughts are this.Why did it overflow? The coolant was DEFINITELY below the max mark.

 

Was there a blockage? CHT did not suggest this. But a lot of coolant came out.

 

Oil and Fuel drain both exit the aircraft underneath, taking potentially flamable agents away from hot engine surfaces. Why is this not the case for coolant? If it overflows it pours all over the engine creating the illusion of an engine fire.

 

In my situation I had every right to cut fuel flow and force land the aircraft in an area that would have definitely caused damage to the aircraft and probably injury or worse to me. I broke the rules and continued flying based on normal gauge readings.

 

This incident has left me very conflicted about my future in aviation. I have always loved it, but this has highlighted the risks we take hiring other peoples aircraft. This is not a past time for anyone who is negligent or cavalier in any way. How do I take my friends and family in an aircraft I dont feel safe in? How can I be assured that the aircraft I am flying in is safe? People I have trusted to provide guidance have let me down.

 

I have decided not to hire those aircraft again. I am looking for a new school in the Brisbane area that can be reccomended by popular groups. My other option is to go back into GA and obtain my PPL. More expensive but I know the maintenance is more structured and can be audited by the pilot at any time.

Hi, i have had a similar experence with the same engine where the coolant tank split and only was noticed by the temp guage. Hang in there dont give up just becuse of this, it sounds like you handled the situation well and landed safely.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Hey, look at it this way...most 10,000 hour ga pilots have had 1 scare.. you got yours out of the way early, so the odds are well in your favour to never have anything go so pearshaped ever again....just a thought.

 

You could expect similar problems in the GA as apposed to RAA...most hire aircraft are very old and not in the best nick.. Find a school that hires out the aircraft they train in and use qualified engineers to do the maintainace schedule.. Im all for blokes looking after there own machines, but the differance is aircraft that are hired out regularly just dont reciece the same love and attention, there's no way of knowing what went on on the previous flight to yours, but a training acft will usually have an instructor onboared for most of the airtime and he or she is much more likely to pick up on any problems or report anything untoward.

 

cheers, and don't give up...look at the bright side...you handled it mate, draw confidance in knowing you have passed the panic test..

 

I was in the air the other day and listened intently on the area frequency as a drama unfolded.. A guy was on his first solo nav from camden to bathurst, crookwell ( i think) and camden.. He called up sydney radar and told them he was lost...they asked him to sqalk ident but he couldnt find the button..By the tone of his voice and the dialog it was easy to tell he was panicking..The atc controller tried to talk him through the use of the transponder but he couldn't get it sorted out..then they asked him to do 2 orbits...they called up in a minute or two and asked how the orbits are going and he replied "i havn't done any orbits, im no where near the harbour bridge".. the controller realised that his performance was way down due to stress and panic.. we were in roughly the same are and offered to look for him but by the time we headed out to where we thought he may be they had identified him due to his irratic heading and altitude changes (we assumed)..the point is, the guy was panicked, and his performance went down to a state where basic functions were comprimised..

 

You have had a very stressfull situation thrust apon you and you kept it together enough to get her back down in one peice.. Most pilots can't know for sure how they will handle an emergancy, but now YOU do...

 

jees i go on and on don't i ...sorry

 

cheers

 

 

[spacesage]

Mike,

 

Im really very sorry to hear about your loss, I grew up in the early days of GA in Ireland and know something of losing friends to aviation accidents. My mother was a lady flyer in the late seventies and this kindled my love of aviation.

 

The help and support I have received here have been of great help and I thank all of the respondants. I really need a helping hand in dealing with this. I have taken my 8 year old son flying with me on many occasions and shudder to think what this could have done had we been together.

 

I do need to talk this out with someone, no one involved has offered any help which has been disappointing. Once I find a new school (I still need to do my x-country endorsement.) this incident will form a big part of why I join their school.

 

Thanks to all for the words encouragement re the landing, It wasnt my best but in hindsight I walked away with no damage to me or property.

 

Can anyone suggest a good RA training facility in the Brisbane area, I don't really care where it is, I am willing to make the drive for a good facility. I would also like to get a Jab endorsement, Im thinking of buying a J230 type a\c at some stage.

 

My mother offered me very similar advice about the safety aspect and my response to the emergency. Mums always know best, particularly those with 500+ hours!!

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

A friend of mine did his conversion to RA with Jennifer Beck at Gympie (and I think she works at Caloundra as well). He had nothing but positive things to say.

 

Jennifer is on this forum occasionally as "Becky" and I'm sure you will find the school listed in the RAAus listings.

 

Others may know the name of the establishment.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Ben Longden]

I would be lodging an incident report with RAA, so that an investigation can be made to see if there is a problem endemic to that series Rotax, or if it was a one off. That way, we all benefit.

 

Well done on handling the emergency professionally.

 

Ben

 

 

[Ultralights]

mate, considering the circumstances, you did very well! an inflight fire is probably the worst event that can happen (even if it turns out to be burning coolant) you kept your head cool, made the right decisions, and got yourself and the aircraft back in one piece...

 

well done.

 

 

[blueshed]

Hi Spacey

 

if you would like to chat with someone who is removed from the situation and is an instructor feel free to give us a call 0408 859 697, or 08 86641323.

 

Cheers Guy

 

 

[spacesage]

I have lodged the report with RAA. Ill wait to see what happens now.

 

Thanks to everyone who has offered their help and support it has been very encouraging just to talk about it with so many people. It has validated my reactions and thoughts towards this event.

 

I will be taking a couple of people up on offers and will be making a few calls in the near future.

 

Thanks to everyone.

 

p.s. I work in IT for a living and I must add my professional opinion to this site. It is a very well run endeavour, Having created and hosted a few of my own in the past it is great to see such a useful tool being used in a very purposeful way. Well done, keep it up.

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

I am not going to add anything to the situation itself - they guys on these forums have given you sound and encouraging advice, as they usually do.

 

But you do sound quite shaken. As Mike has said a bit of time will give you some more comfort as time is a big healer. However about the confidence/motivation bit.

 

I would strongly suggest that you give Kev Walters a bell and spend a bit of time with him talking things through. Kev is the local area Regional Operations controller, a CFI running his own school with Drifter and (I belive) Technams, and is a highly experienced Ag pilot, owning his on Pawnee.

 

Kev can be as hard as nails and is not backward in telling it the way it is actually is. However he is very good with people and it could do you good.

 

He is based near Coominya which is a bit over an hour's drive from Brisbane as you have to loop around the ranges, but it is very calm and peaceful out here as well.

 

You can get Kev on 07 5465 8888.

 

Alternatively you are welcome to come in and have a chat with me. I may be a square these days but I have been around. I have also done a lot of remedial instructing. A talk will cost you nothing and I am at Watts Bridge, 20 mins up the road from Kev. My number is 07 5423 1963.

 

Aye

 

Tony