Throttle and recovery from stall and spin.

[facthunter]

Just WHY are WE discussing  this on a forum in this manner? There's MANY different ways of recovering from spins required with different aircraft. Far too many to make statements giving detailed ways of recovering when most of you have never ever done one. Some of you are putting out opinions that ARE dangerous. They tell far from the whole story. People who test planes for spinning for a job have anti spin parachutes for the plane and parachutes for themselves and still have close calls and lose planes. If you don't watch yourself you can easily enter an inverted spin in the recovery . I know very experienced pilots who have done just that and consider themselves lucky to be around. Nev

[Blueadventures]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Just WHY are WE discussing  this on a forum in this manner? There's MANY different ways of recovering from spins required with different aircraft. Far too many to make statements giving detailed ways of recovering when most of you have never ever done one. Some of you are putting out opinions that ARE dangerous. They tell far from the whole story. People who test planes for spinning for a job have anti spin parachutes for the plane and parachutes for themselves and still have close calls and lose planes. If you don't watch yourself you can easily enter an inverted spin in the recovery . I know very experienced pilots who have done just that and consider themselves lucky to be around. Nev

Absolutely agree, I’m not an instructor; and the first post detail is concerning. Best to work with the instructor and the aircrafts traits at stall for a start. I believe APen should be working on stall with a wing drop first if this has not been done to date and then do some steep climbing turns to stall, all with an instructor and agreement first.  Not sure what rego and if RAA reg won’t / shouldn’t be doing spins.  May be done in GA of course or experience in a glider.  I have done many spins in my gliding time.

 

 

 

[Roundsounds]

No wonder there are so many accidents involving inadvertent low level stalls. There seem to be many misunderstandings around stall recovery and the aerodynamics involved. I currently hold both GA and RAAus instructor ratings and have held CASA CFI, Flight testing and RAA CFI quals. Over the years I have had the opportunity to provide tailwheel and aerobatic training to flight instructors. Their poor knowledge of slow flight, stall and spin recovery always concerned me, what I’m seeing here is no doubt the result of this. 

[Garfly]

It'd appear from this vid, that teach-yourself-stall-spins is seen by some instructors (stateside) as an okay ab-initio exercise.

 

Some wild and wonderful discussion in the YouTube comments.

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

This is me doing an inverted spin and recovery in an Extra 300. I stand by my previous comments and have nothing to add.

[turboplanner]

8 minutes ago, APenNameAndThatA said:

This is me doing an inverted spin and recovery in an Extra 300. I stand by my previous comments and have nothing to add.

I believe you; that Brisbane scenery's great.

[M61A1]

22 hours ago, Roundsounds said:

No wonder there are so many accidents involving inadvertent low level stalls.

I'd lay money that it's got more to do with the lack of low level training in the syllabus.

From what I've seen a lot of the low level stall/spins are after an event like an engine fail and being very uncomfortable manoeuvring close to the ground, make serious mistakes.

I may be wrong, as I don't know what other instructors teach these days, but the ones I use insist on competency with slow flight, stalls and recovery, and such.

[Blueadventures]

Agree M61A1; it took me 4 years at my 2nd bfr to 100% appreciate what wing drops in a turning stall, I had things all wrong up to that time.  That's why I mentioned in my recent post above to ask the instructor to teach such at 4,000 ft agl of course.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Blueadventures

[Thruster88]

This is a good instructional video. It has been posted here before.

 

 

[Garfly]

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Be more informative IF you could observe ALL controls. Nev

[Garfly]

Yeah, this guy's videos are super minimalist.

But interesting to watch his "Let's try all the wrong inputs first" approach. It'd be great if it was more elaborately done.

[facthunter]

IF you DO the "full forward stick" bit you can easily end up in an inverted spin very suddenly. It can also shield parts of the LOWER rudder critical in some designs to recovering at all.. Nev

[turboplanner]

43 minutes ago, Garfly said:

Yeah, this guy's videos are super minimalist.

But interesting to watch his "Let's try all the wrong inputs first" approach. It'd be great if it was more elaborately done.

Who would hire an aircraft after that?

[Garfly]

Any aerobatics pilot, I'd have thought. Why not?

 

I'd be more worried about hiring an aeros instructor who didn't know - and share - what wrong inputs did (or failed to do).

Edited May 29, 2021 by Garfly

[facthunter]

While you are in a Spin (slow airspeed) you won't overstress the plane whatever control movement you perform. In the recovery, the Max "G" is during the pull out from the dive and that would depend on the amount of nose down attitude  you had and how "clean" the plane is.  A normal "G" indication is about 2.8 positive in the pull out . More is possible of course. I know of a C-150 that lay the fin over due keeping the rudder deflected in the recovery where the speed had built up quite substantially at that stage . This happened at Port Macquarie, NSW quite a while ago.  No one was injured.  Nev

[Garfly]

Fair enough. 

I didn't mean THAT wrong ;-))  And neither did the instructor in the vid. 

He was very clear about being very gentle in the pull-out.

[turboplanner]

13 minutes ago, Garfly said:

Fair enough. 

I didn't mean THAT wrong ;-))  And neither did the instructor in the vid. 

He was very clear about being very gentle in the pull-out.

An instructor might know incipient from in one but when you're in control by yourself and messing around it's a different story. I've actually seen someone having a go in the training area and falling 500 to 1000 feet with a sharp pull out.

[facthunter]

The instructor seems "fine" with it. The Cessna incident was probably a student freezing on the controls. . Some planes will just fly themselves out of a spin if you don't hold it IN the spin.  A condition of  controls centralized once the desired aim has been achieved is critical. The order is arrest spin/yaw with rudder and then unstall  by forward stick movement. There is a large degree of variation from some planes to others. That's why  the particular planes behaviour should be known. If the Cof G is too far rearward recovery may be impossible. Also if it settles into a flat spin anticipate a more difficult and longer recovery.  That's why most demo's are limited to a LOW maximum number of turns . 

[Garfly]

In this one he uses the same teaching method for a flat spin situation:

 

 

 

And here's another one.  He's not one to waste words - or frames.  😉

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Garfly

[facthunter]

Turbs He's lucky to only lose the height he did. Entry to a spin can take a number of turns before  it settles in the spin and it will shudder and shake in the meantime. Might take 2 to 3 turns even with out of spin aileron applied. Others just roll into a steep nose down position rotating and that's it. Nev