Is RAA getting 760kg MTOW?

[Flightrite]

jackc…stop showing signs of enjoyment, that’s unacceptable……to some😉😂

[facthunter]

I don't think any of the acquaintances of mine who went dead in planes, welcomed it. In flying, it's wise to learn from the experiences of others. Some flying contraptions are death traps. Small helo's have insufficient inertia in the rotors to auto rotate and flare successfully if the tail rotor or the engine fails. I have an old saying. "there are enough "unknown " risks in flying to knowingly take an extra one with you" . It's not a very forgiving environment.  I was never a " Nervous on a fine day person" but it's a "think Aeroplane" environment. Nev

Edited June 4, 2022 by facthunter

[Bruce Tuncks]

Here's where jackc is right ...   he wants to be able to do things at his own risk. I couldn't agree more.

Even in the exercise class I go to, the poor instructor has to worry if one of the clients falls over etc. Why we can't sign a sheet to say that we want to do the class at our own risk is beyond me. Maybe such an agreement cuts out the lawyers and the judges are ex-lawyers? If so, then there is a dreadful deal going to impoverish everybody to enrich the legal types.

Personally, I would still take passengers , in fact I always have, but I fly them over wheat-lands so they will not be injured in the case of an engine failure.

Yes I know that worse scenarios can be imagined, for example the wings could fall off, but I choose to live according to reasonable probabilities, and even an engine-out is getting close to this limit.  You have to assume that a hitherto sound engine will pass a DI that morning and then fail suddenly.

The alternative is to live in fear of millions to one events.

[kgwilson]

Signing a waiver before carrying out an activity considered to include risk of injury or death does not prevent the estate or relatives suing. The law should be amended to stop this so long as the waiver is not signed under duress.

 

The Kiwis can't sue when an accident causes injury or death. This was enshrined in law nearly 50 years ago when they set up their Accident Compensation Commission. Of course lawyers & the insurance industry hates it as it derives them of easy income. The commission is funded by employer levies & motor vehicle CTP but covers all accidents. There was so much money in the coffers that they reduced the CTP on car registration dramatically that it cost only $80.00 a year to register a car inclusive of the ACC levy.

 

A similar system needs to be set up here. Australia is  the second most litigious country on earth after the USA.

[facthunter]

The "average" person can't afford the Court Process. Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

You guys are both right!...  There is some sort of a doctrine which says " you can't sign away your legal rights". ( ie " you can't cut us off from the gravy train").  Also, there has always been the fact that legal remedies were never open to workers...  the legal system was put there for the rich.

That's why we need fundamental change. Or we could just do our own thing and not get caught or come unstuck. 

I used to tell the story about the Mildura Pik 20 glider and how it crashed and the 3 owners tried to sue CASA or whoever preceded them. They argued that the glider should never have been granted a certificate of airworthiness.

The glider was worth about $15,000 at the time and the owners got to pay a legal bill of $90,000 before giving up. The moral?  Stay away from the law if you can.

[jackc]

Look, I am over it……IF I kill my self doing anything stupid its MY fault, it’s up to me to do my own risk assessment to determine if I wish to go ahead or not.

IF risk involves others?  Nope won’t go there.  

Who can sue me IF I kill or badly injure myself?  It’s all on me.  You know, I did all sorts of dangerous things in my business life making my own personal risk assessments before there was even a coined phrase.  30 years of my own business with NO public liability insurance, nothing.  Not even product liability insurance for anything I designed and built, no project insurance either.

Never had a problem in those 30 years.

[facthunter]

The biggest risk to your fortune and lifestyle is who you marry and you aren't in the most stable frame of mind at the time, either.   Nev

[spacesailor]

That kiwi ' no suing ' is crook !.

Injury by ' malpractice ' & ineptitude, 

Should be a Criminal lawsuit !.

Just another way to rid of the employer of workers , without paying for their long service leave & other entitlements. 

Sounds wrong, but is being used to stip worker payouts !.

spacesailor

[jackc]

59 minutes ago, facthunter said:

The biggest risk to your fortune and lifestyle is who you marry and you aren't in the most stable frame of mind at the time, either.   Nev

Went and got tested for senility, dementia and other mental problems to add to my will, wife likewise. Finances covered etc.   So, my documentation is in order 🙂 

[Flightrite]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

The biggest risk to your fortune and lifestyle is who you marry and you aren't in the most stable frame of mind at the time, either.   Nev

I’ve said it many times, Sheilers & aviation are a poor mix, pick one and stick to it😂

[facthunter]

I know a bit about flying but I'll never be an expert on women.   You can get PAID for flying. Nev

[turboplanner]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

The "average" person can't afford the Court Process. Nev

The average person takes out PL Insurance so is a spectator when the claim comes in.

[turboplanner]

4 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Even in the exercise class I go to, the poor instructor has to worry if one of the clients falls over etc. Why we can't sign a sheet to say that we want to do the class at our own risk is beyond me. 

Because you still have the right to sue, and people every day are suing relatives, best friends after they find they are blind or can't walk again after someone took a shortcut. The exercise class operator is making you aware that there are out of the ordinary risks. Most people who go flying have been told it's the safest form of transport in the world, so they jump in a recreational aircraft thinking they have the same safety level. The sign on the dash alerts them to the fact that additional risk is involved. Without this they are likely to claim for additional damages because they wouldn't have taken the flight if they knew the risk was so high. In Speedway we lost a case because a race meeting was advertised as a "Family Event" (no alcohol). A piece of clay flew up injuring a child and we had to pay for exactly that argument. We have every track print Motor Racing is Dangerous tags on the programmes and fences, then someone was injured by a flying car which broke through the catch fence. The injured person didn't claim for several years, then successfully sued us because we hadn't told him that that even though motor racing was dangerous, he had the right to sue us if we were negligent, and he argued that a Catch fence cable connector was not in accordance with the Australian Standard (someone had just overlapped the straight cables and clamped them where the standard required a fold-back before clamping). We had to pay out.

 

4 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Personally, I would still take passengers , in fact I always have, but I fly them over wheat-lands so they will not be injured in the case of an engine failure.

Nothing wrong with that. You've been trained to take over when the engine fails and use a procedure to land at normal landing speed on the best piece of land you can find which ensures survival.   There is already a precedent case where the Instructor took over after an engine quite, and his student was injured. The Judge found that although the student was injured, the PIC was not negligent in pulling off a successful forced landing.  Maybe if the Instructor had been flying over tiger country (poor judgement) or picked an unsuitable paddock it might have been different, but it was a textbook Forced Landing so no problems.

 

4 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Yes I know that worse scenarios can be imagined, for example the wings could fall off, but I choose to live according to reasonable probabilities, and even an engine-out is getting close to this limit. 

That's generally accepted, but if there is a record on Instagram of you doing aerobatics month after month, that may change.

4 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

You have to assume that a hitherto sound engine will pass a DI that morning and then fail suddenly.

That's why we are trained to land the aircraft even though the engine has failed. We've seen above that even if we injure the passenger, a textbook Forced Landing is good indicator that we were not negligent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Statistics show the average family farm is a very dangerous place. Hydraulics are often involved plus trikes and Quad bikes..   I never went out of my way to  carry passengers in an ultra light because of the liability.  I took up many owners offer to fly their plane and the rest was instruction in owners or club/school planes.  The PAX you take may be OK but the wife or another relative may  take a different view with advice from a lawyer. Nev

[Flightrite]

Stop it, yooz all scaring me!😂😂 I must get a plane drivers ticket one day, just in case😉

[facthunter]

Generally if you are getting paid for it you don't have to worry with the exception of when in Greece. They lock you up straight away there if the Plane does anything wrong.  Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

Well I operate on a family farm AND I fly Jabirus. The most dangerous thing I do is get older at the rate of 1 year per year. But some bastard put my life on fast forward just when I wanted it slowed down. 76  !!!    And yes, I don't ride a quad bike these days. They have been swapped for buggies on safety grounds mainly.

A guy I knew from school died near Alice Springs on a quad bike....   if you roll one of these, you get crushed when the bike is on top of you.

 

 

[turboplanner]

...and never slide off a haystack with sheep netting around it held up by star pickets.

 

[jackc]

2 hours ago, Flightrite said:

Stop it, yooz all scaring me!😂😂 I must get a plane drivers ticket one day, just in case😉

Doing anything without a licence is FUN.  I Used to be radio pirate with CBs years ago getting chased everywhere. Been threatened with arrest etc.  Got nailed once under the Crimes Act 1914, fronted court defended myself and the D.O.C of the time had a barrister, blew him into the weeds and had all charges dismissed.

Not a year later they decided to make CB legal.

Using that precedent, we publish lots of unlicensed ultralight FAR Part 103 operations and CASA might just think about something in the future.

Have asked Admin here for subgroup……tried to do it but would not work.

[turboplanner]

9 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

A guy I knew from school died near Alice Springs on a quad bike....   if you roll one of these, you get crushed when the bike is on top of you.

Rollover protection has been required for some years now, and some smart lateral thinking has slimmed it down to a single vertical bar bolted to the towbar plate.

 

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

RAA just did a update on the 760kg..so maybe all underway by the end of the year

 

 

 

[Flightrite]

Some good info there in that Vid, if you want to skip the rabbiting/waffling on go to around the 15 min mark👍
Its getting that way that you’ll need to be a Philadelphia lawyer to figure it all out😉 Jill had the best info👍

Edited June 9, 2022 by Flightrite

[Thruster88]

Matt's answer to the AOPA question, does RAAus support the push for self declared medicals for VH private pilots was interesting.

He could have said, we absolutely support that. Instead he gave an answer any politician would be proud of.

[Bruce Tuncks]

How many lives have been saved by the medicals business? I reckon the answer would be NONE.

But I did know a guy who had type 1 diabetes. He knew when he was too crook to fly. He knew days in advance, and never flew when he was crook.

My guess is that the powers that be would fraudulently claim him as a success of their policy. Nothing could be further from the truth.