ASIC, does my passenger need one

[RossK]

So, as the title says, if I fly into a security controlled aerodrome/airport and I have an ASIC, does my passenger need one also?

Thanks

[skippydiesel]

Na! He/She/It are covered by yours, as long as you remain together.

 

You dont need one either:

 

A. If no one is there to challenge you  (very common scenario)

B. You book ahead for an escort (see A)

C. You stay in or close to your aircraft (see A again)

 

The whole ASIC thing (for secondary airfield/ports) is an ill conceived, complete "furphy" - try not to get involved.

[RossK]

7 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Na! He/She/It are covered by yours, as long as you remain together.

 

You dont need one either:

 

A. If no one is there to challenge you  (very common scenario)

B. You book ahead for an escort (see A)

C. You stay in or close to your aircraft (see A again)

 

The whole ASIC thing (for secondary airfield/ports) is an ill conceived, complete "furphy" - try not to get involved.

Thanks, but we'd probably want to get through the gate.  ie a visit to Kangaroo Island(Kingscote Airport) or Merimbula.

[Roscoe]

56 minutes ago, RossK said:

Thanks, but we'd probably want to get through the gate.  ie a visit to Kangaroo Island(Kingscote Airport) or Merimbula.

Ross

As Skippy said, as long as your pax are with you, no prob

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, RossK said:

Thanks, but we'd probably want to get through the gate.  ie a visit to Kangaroo Island(Kingscote Airport) or Merimbula.

Fair enough but if we all boycott (like that would ever happen) this completely stupid initiative, the good-ol-boys of the gov might just have to think again.

 

What is it with Australian's, we just role over and ask for a kicking and again and again, no questions asked, no action taken . Its no wonder our leaders feel free to rip us off at will (apologies all round if caught), implement illogical laws as an alternative taxation rout with no sign of a benefit to the proletariat anywhere on the horizon.

[Cosmick]

I have this on my phone. The key word is “frequent “

[RossK]

Thanks for the info guys.

And whilst i may agree with waht you've said, I'd be there with my wife, trying to make it as enjoyable for her as possible.

So easy, hassle free access is what I'm after. And if it cost me $100/year, so be it.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

12 minutes ago, RossK said:

Thanks for the info guys.

And whilst i may agree with waht you've said, I'd be there with my wife, trying to make it as enjoyable for her as possible.

So easy, hassle free access is what I'm after. And if it cost me $100/year, so be it.

 

 

Gotcha!

[Rodj]

6 hours ago, RossK said:

Thanks, but we'd probably want to get through the gate.  ie a visit to Kangaroo Island(Kingscote Airport) or Merimbula.

I always forget to pull out my ASIC at Merimbula and no-one has questioned it. Maybe that's just because it's been so quiet this year and the couple of staff that may be around know you've just climbed out of a plane. 

[skippydiesel]

One of the first to obtain an ASIC, I  did not renew after the second round - haven't needed it since.

 

The reality is, that just about everyone, pilots, airfield staff, etc are well and truly bored by something that does not in any shape or forme enhance security for secondary airfields/ports or the major ports they may  fly in to.

 

Note: I support ASIC type security measures at our major ports.

[SplitS]

I would be surprised if anyone cares about an ASIC card in KI. The only place I have landed where they even check is Alice Springs where they have way to many airport staff with nothing better to do.

99% of the time just wear a lanyard with a red card no one will question it.

[skippydiesel]

Isn't Alice is an international port ? If so I am not surprised by the ASIC requirement - its all the secondary's that are a total furphy.

[pmccarthy]

I landed a Cherokee at Alice once had guns pointed at me. It was just after the famous hijacking in November 1972. Perhaps they are still nervous.

[onetrack]

Australia's most murderous air-terrorist would not have been stopped by an ASIC card, and there's probably a couple more like him, just waiting to go off. That's where the flaws are in the airside security. I'm talking about Colin Richard Forman.

[Cosmick]

Of course instead of going Kamikazi and flying directly into a full pasenger jet, Terminal or fuel tanks the Terrorist is going to Land and be caught by Authorities because the ASIC was missing.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Cosmick
spelling

[Jim McDowall]

Does anyone know if there has been any review of the system and its effectiveness? Or is it not a "priority issue" for a government who trumpets their attach on excessive or ineffective regulation?

[skippydiesel]

2 minutes ago, Jim McDowall said:

Does anyone know if there has been any review of the system and its effectiveness? Or is it not a "priority issue" for a government who trumpets their attach on excessive or ineffective regulation?

Maaaate - I believe thee have been some attempts to have this matter reviewed to no avail.

The reality is once a law/legislation has been enacted there is a general unwillingness & high cost to change/remove it, no matter how ridiculous it is.

The fact is this legislation was introduced in great hast, by the look at me too attention seeker politicians in Canberra , after Sept 11 terrorist attacks in the US. Not even the US has come up with such draconian and ill thought out legislation.

If we Australians could only act like other democratically ruled populations  and refuse to participate (rebel) - this would have been thrown out fairly shortly after its introduction.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I don't recall any theory - sunstantiated or conspiracy - that reckoned the 9/11 terrorsists decided against flying into the Sydney Opera House because they would have needed an ASIC (yes, I know, they weren't around then).

 

This comes up occasionally here and in PPRUNE, and in UK Flyer Forums, etc. It is a complete joke, but it has created a small industry where the background checks can't be too thorough as I can apply for one here and as long as a designated person who is authorised to sign for the docs sees me and them together, it is done in about 2 weeks.. Which makes me think its little more than a criminal record check, possibly a credit check and maybe a trawl though public health record systems of any evidence of violent psychological disorders - oh, and a check if one is licenced shooter and has licenced firearms - of course that will catch the nasty types.. In fact from here, I can have the ASIC ready to go without them having seen my documents and when I front up to collect it, I just have to show them the docs to prove I am who I say I am - because I can givem them an Aussie address they can post things to.  How they will tell I, as a foreign resident, have any issues, I will never know - not in a couple of weeks. I had a UK SC Security clearance which allowed me to have access to secret and occasional top secret assets. As I was only in the UK for about 3 years at the time.. maybe 4, it took 9 months and I know the depths they went to to make sure I wasn't a risk...

 

Over here, which arguably has a much higher terrorist threat than Australia, we are not required an ASIC type card to visit any airfield. Blackbushe, the field I was last involved with would issue an identity card, but that was really to show a) you had passed their out of hours operations questionnairre, and b) the fuel operator had faith you could take your fuel on account. No one wore them (except those who also wore  G suits for C150A aeros). GA airfields have as about as lax security as they ever had.. And the security is tight as fishes posteriors at major airports.. it is mandated by law the min standards and as part of their licence, they have to satisfy the Home Office their security  meets it, it is audited, etc. etc. I bet few, if any foreign operator crews have an ASIC yet they can come and go through Kingsford-Smith, Tulla, etc.. because of the security the airprt has to deploy - not because of ASIC. That is just another layer to justify it to the masses.

 

It is also costing GA operators good money (how much, I am not sure), but every so often someone in the flyer forums or who you speak to raises it as they intended a great flying holiday in Aus, but instead opted for a 1 hour joy-flight around the Sydney basin (or wherever they happened to be)

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Jerry_Atrick

[Jim McDowall]

There is a requirement that regulation be evidence based. Someone needs to demonstrate the effectiveness or otherwise of the regulatory requirement. We all know that the security services think that more regulatory hurdles may prevent attacks but in the end Parliament needs to be reminded that just because no aviation based attack has happened doesn't mean that the regulation has done its job. The evidence actually is opposite as the baggage handlers at Sydney all must have had ASIC cards but some of them were involved in all sorts of stuff that if the issuing system was doing its job you would have thought they would not have been approved for an ASIC.

Just like the gun thing - only law abiding citizens suffered - illegal weapons still get used in shootings country-wide.

The real lesson is that the Connellan Airways tragedy can still occur as not all aircraft are kept on public strips or ASIC required airports. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Jim McDowall
spelling

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Jim McDowall said:

There is a requirement that regulation be evidence based.  

Sounds like you wish this to be true but unfortunately wishing & logic, fact, science can all be dismissed at the whim of a poly, trying to big note themselves/curry favour/ or otherwise ingratiate themselves with someone/business

[SplitS]

10 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Isn't Alice is an international port ? If so I am not surprised by the ASIC requirement - its all the secondary's that are a total furphy.

No they don't have customs. Alice Springs is very similar to Dubbo but Dubbo seems way more relaxed. Alice does service the space base but they tend to park away from everyone else and do there own thing. Alice would have way less GA traffic than Dubbo so there is that to.

[Jim McDowall]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

logic, fact, science can all be dismissed at the whim of a poly, trying to big note themselves/curry favour/ or otherwise ingratiate themselves with someone/business

That may be true if a piece was on 4 corners the night before or there is some policy platform they and to prosecute but the reality is that most acts of parliament and regulations originate from the un-elected public service who convince pollies that this act/regulation is the right thing to do generally to give them more control or make their job easier or simply make more jobs thus increasing their argument for a pay rise.

I cant recall but I think the ASIC card arose from regulations not an Act of parliament so it really didn't suffer the scrutiny of parliament at the time and most of the incumbents were not in parliament at the time plus it does not affect them or the majority of their constituents (as if they mattered!).

Edited December 18, 2020 by Jim McDowall
spelling

[Ironpot]

On 18/12/2020 at 4:10 AM, SplitS said:

I would be surprised if anyone cares about an ASIC card in KI. The only place I have landed where they even check is Alice Springs where they have way to many airport staff with nothing better to do.

99% of the time just wear a lanyard with a red card no one will question it.

Alice security doesn’t start work before 7am. 
 

Mackay and Rockhampton often check your ASIC. Some places require you to flash it for the camera as you exit when requesting the re- entry code e.g. Gold Coast and Longreach. But yeah most places just hide the code somewhere or use a frequency.

[skippydiesel]

On 18/12/2020 at 9:01 PM, Jim McDowall said:

That may be true if a piece was on 4 corners the night before or there is some policy platform they and to prosecute but the reality is that most acts of parliament and regulations originate from the un-elected public service who convince pollies that this act/regulation is the right thing to do generally to give them more control or make their job easier or simply make more jobs thus increasing their argument for a pay rise.

I cant recall but I think the ASIC card arose from regulations not an Act of parliament so it really didn't suffer the scrutiny of parliament at the time and most of the incumbents were not in parliament at the time plus it does not affect them or the majority of their constituents (as if they mattered!).

All well & good but has anyone actually heard a single pilot speak in support of ASIC and allied regulations, as applied to secondary airfields/ports? It truly amazes me that there are good  people out there, who despite not agreeing with these draconian , illogical, costly measures (not just ASIC but the whole security upgrade thing, that costs the whole community) go through the whole charade of filling out the forms & paying the dough, just so they can flash their card in the unlikely event that they will be so challenged.

[Jim McDowall]

9 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

It truly amazes me that there are good  people out there, who despite not agreeing with these draconian , illogical, costly measures (not just ASIC but the whole security upgrade thing, that costs the whole community) go through the whole charade of filling out the forms & paying the dough, just so they can flash their card in the unlikely event that they will be so challenged.

These are the same people who do not vote in RAA elections and say, I just want to go flying. At a wider community level the lack of education about civics and how our system of government works has created a population of compliant subjugates who "just want to get on with their lives". Unless a cause (really an event like a march) is popular on social media, however loopy, it is not likely to rise to the top of mind in the ruling classes (not just the elected ones). 

Bottom line is it takes time and persistence to develop relationships with pollies to the extent that they MAY take up your cause and most people don't even know who their elected representatives are.