facthunter Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 ALL ultra lights have horror stories "THEY" conjure up OUT THERE. Nev
jackc Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 14 minutes ago, spacesailor said: They say, Trikes, hang gliding & powered parachutes, have the same Deadly accident rate !. Just the same as motor bikes. Do we take any notice. spacesailor And then you can pull out of your driveway, THEN get wiped off the Earth by an out of control truck...... Life has its elements of risks.......
Russ Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 15 minutes ago, facthunter said: ALL ultra lights have horror stories "THEY" conjure up OUT THERE. Nev Correct.....they conjure up, mostly exaggerated or false
old man emu Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 Russ, Can you answer these two queains? What is the cause of loss of control whilst airborne? What's a power pushover?
kasper Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 2 hours ago, spacesailor said: They say, Trikes, hang gliding & powered parachutes, have the same Deadly accident rate !. Just the same as motor bikes. Do we take any notice. spacesailor The reason is that they each have different control responses and emergency procedures- and what saves 1 can destroy another. it explains the reason RAAus has control groups A-D for the four pilot techniques. I’ve got group A, B & C - tried D and decided it’s not my cup of tea - but trust people who fly across the groups that you have to be spot on your emergency procedures for the aircraft you’re flying at that time and as an instructor it was always the hardest to get students to relearn the responses to emergencies and to react appropriately in a timely and consistent way. Sane applies to gyros - I tried them and the control focuses are different again but for me they are like group D - not my cup of tea.
Russ Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 25 minutes ago, old man emu said: Russ, Can you answer these two queains? What is the cause of loss of control whilst airborne? What's a power pushover? Ok......power push over.......you’re on a powered nose high climb, and you shove stick forward to commence a descent. The gyro will pendulum at a point at that roll over and the rotors will strike the tail...game over. 1 alternative is.....power off, EASE stick forward, so you gently roll over, over she goes then commence descent in the normal safe way. there are several ways to go from hard climb to immediate descent, but i won’t explain here, it needs to be hands on with suited instructor, don’t want a pilot reading here, and going out to give it a try. loss of control........mechanical failure of some kind, pilot seriously stuffed up and was unable to gain control.....hard question to answer, sorry 1
waraton Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, old man emu said: What is the cause of loss of control whilst airborne? What's a power pushover? Adding to the explanation by Russ My understanding is there are two main causes of airborne loss of control in a gyro. Flat spin with a backslide caused by negative airspeed and no rudder authority and a pushover. High thrust line gyros where the thrust is higher than CofG are more prone to this. I believe most gyro prangs are due to rotor mismanagement on the ground. Power pushover is generally caused by a pilot with uncontrolled oscillations (porpoising) which causes the rotors to unload. This is where the relative airflow hits the top of the rotor rather than impacting below. Once unloaded the energy of rotation is lost, rotors are no longer coned up and results in a loss of control. It is also a risk as described by Russ in a steep climb and loss of power. (High risk scenario for all aircraft). Many accidents early with benson style home build machines were people teaching themselves to fly (a bit like early days of AUF or before). Gyros are no more subject to catastrophic component failure than any other machine depending on maintenance. In Australia Gyros are used extensively for mustering and many of these machines work 1000+ hours a year. It is not uncommon for many of them to have 5000 - 10,000 hours on them (or more). My old style high thrustline gyro now has almost 6300 hours on the hobbs and is on its 2nd 2.2l subaru car engine. Did 3 hours of fun flying this weekend in it. Plenty of people criticise anything outside mainstream for reasons I can only speculate. Many modern Gyrocopters are well over $200,000 new and are very sophisticated. Like fixed wing and stalling in the circuit, know the risks, know your aircraft, stay current. They are an amazing platform. Training, airmanship, maintenance. Good to go. Probably a bit off topic now!
old man emu Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 So when we hear of a gyro crash, it is very likely to have been as a result of a power pushover during mustering operations?
Russ Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, old man emu said: So when we hear of a gyro crash, it is very likely to have been as a result of a power pushover during mustering operations? Nope, nar, hell no
Russ Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 14 hours ago, waraton said: Adding to the explanation by Russ Like fixed wing and stalling in the circuit, “Stalling in circuit” ?????????you’ve got me there, ???
old man emu Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 39 minutes ago, Russ said: Nope, nar, hell no Please explaaaain.
Russ Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 16 minutes ago, old man emu said: Please explaaaain. 98.4% (-: of incidences are weekend worriers, total hrs per yr less than 50. The musterers log up 100’s +, running out of fuel pops up, blade strike on them pesky trees comes up, the flick and bank rarely comes up.
waraton Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Russ said: “Stalling in circuit” ?????????you’ve got me there, ??? Was using this as an example of risk in fixed wing aircraft where we are at most risk in the circuit, either power loss on takeoff or overcorrecting turns on landing approach with lack of airspeed. If you know what the risks are associated with your aircraft being aware of them will help avoid getting into strife. Was not inferring that rotorcraft stall in the circuit. 1
Jase T Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) On 30/01/2021 at 5:13 PM, Russ said: A little off topic, but....Yet to find an instructor that will teach full auto rotations to full stop on ground in a helo. Sometimes i wonder if they can actually do it themselves. Most power up 100....200ft AGL, if not higher. OK I can speak to this one as I have both done and taught Autos. To a large extent it will depend on the instructor, aircraft and insurance!! I cant speak to an R-22 as I have never flown one but the B-206+ and 205 are fantastic for it and hold a lot of rotor inertia through the initial and flare and give you lots and lots of cushion. I would imagine the little Robbies would be a lot more sensitive to RRPM changes with a tendency to overspeed on entry and in the flare and would run out if you were a little high. Some dont like doing them as you will be doing a run-on landing so there is risk if not perfectly straight. It takes a LOT of practice and recency to remain confident! 200' seems a little odd though, surely you can have the power back in and still be in auto fly the Flare, the initial and terminate to the hover instead of running on? Not current anymore so dont know current practices.. Edited February 1, 2021 by Jase T
Russ Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 49 minutes ago, Jase T said: OK I can speak to this one as I have both done and taught Autos. To a large extent it will depend on the instructor, aircraft and insurance!! I cant speak to an R-22 as I have never flown one but the B-206+ and 205 are fantastic for it and hold a lot of rotor inertia through the initial and flare and give you lots and lots of cushion. I would imagine the little Robbies would be a lot more sensitive to RRPM changes with a tendency to overspeed on entry and in the flare and would run out if you were a little high. Some dont like doing them as you will be doing a run-on landing so there is risk if not perfectly straight. It takes a LOT of practice and recency to remain confident! 200' seems a little odd though, surely you can have the power back in and still be in auto fly the Flare, the initial and terminate to the hover instead of running on? Not current anymore so dont know current practices.. 22’s never ever full auto to ground, never. Low inertia blades dont give much room for error, if any. 44’s heavier blades good, but rare to find instructor / company that will allow auto to ground. There must be some around the traps that do auto somewhere. Heard the 206 etc can auto to ground and then lift again and rotate 180........that’s impressive ...
Bruce Tuncks Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 Some things bend more than others tho... apparently modern big-span gliders could not be made without carbon wings, because glass wings would twist and ruin the spanwise angle of attack and thus remove the big span advantage.
Russ Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 Many of the maxi yachts no longer have mast stays, with the power in those sails, the masts manage it.....amazing
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