Prop stopped.

[NT5224]

On 13/02/2021 at 8:50 PM, Garfly said:

 

 

Interesting clip.

 

Two observations from the benefit of my arm chair. First I was interested to see a tricycle undercarriage nose over like that  in the rough.

 

Second, I dunno the aircraft type or its approach speed but I felt (with the benefit of hindsight!) that the pilot was carrying a bit of extra speed into his approach. Flaps dropped to late to slow him down much and if he hadn't nosed in, the aircraft would have gone into the trees... 

 

But the pilot saved himself and any passenger  and that aircraft will likely fly again -so all things considered great flying!

 

Easy to  be an armchair critic -but this  same thing happened to me in 2017...

 

Alan

 

[Garfly]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bosi72]

14 hours ago, Garfly said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From this altitude, I would be heading direct towards the airport then spiraling/circling down. But could be the camera not doing it a justice, or pilot practiced there before. In any case, well done !

[facthunter]

Did you learn anything you could apply to your skills base, re planning glide approaches generally? I'd say not much and if landing right on the keys is your aim you better "unlearn" it. Very few instructional briefings on forced landings are fullsome and satisfactory according to an ex casa ATO I know and I have no difficulty believing him. Having a few basic No No's make a good start  People still muck up many partial or total failure of the engine landings by getting slow. trying to stretch the glide.. You can wash off extra  height but you can't usually gain it, if your judgement has been in error. Nev

[APenNameAndThatA]

On 04/02/2021 at 11:51 PM, NT5224 said:

Great clip but gotta say I thought his turn onto final rather steep with engine out. Still,did the trick I guess...

 

Alan

A slip is much safer than a skid. Disclaimer: I have 117 hours. 

[Student Pilot]

A slip has crossed controls skid usually not. Balanced flight always better, there are times when a slip can be used to loose height/speed. Some people who can't/don't want to crab down final in a crosswind use flying out of balance or a skid. I have always used crabbing.

[Bosi72]

On 22/02/2021 at 12:22 PM, facthunter said:

Did you learn anything you could apply to your skills base, re planning glide approaches generally? I'd say not much and if landing right on the keys is your aim you better "unlearn" it. Very few instructional briefings on forced landings are fullsome and satisfactory according to an ex casa ATO I know and I have no difficulty believing him. Having a few basic No No's make a good start  People still muck up many partial or total failure of the engine landings by getting slow. trying to stretch the glide.. You can wash off extra  height but you can't usually gain it, if your judgement has been in error. Nev

I just realised this video have a sound and is actually staged 🙂

 

Regardless, if I'm at 8500ft and engine stops, and have that big aerodrome is in sight, I would still head directly towards the aerodrome, then spiraling down (until I can play high key/low key).  Reason: those mountains where you can clearly see the trees could generate some strong winds called "mountain waves" (I'm sure you've heard about them), winds that could push you down sooner than you've planned, then as you said "stretching the glide" may be too late.

 

I like your rhetoric "did you learn anything - unlearn" or "no no". Ah you must be a very smart person ?

I hope you are not instructor using that method when teaching the students.

 

[Mike Gearon]

On 06/02/2021 at 2:31 PM, facthunter said:

Forcing planes onto the ground usually ends up bad. .Nev

While Stick and Rudder is still fresh I can more or less quote it...

 

The “old timers” would do a forced landing while pretending an actual airfield was beneath them. 
 

As the book was written in the 40’s the old timers were really the first aviators with unreliable engines. They knew their stuff. I know in the mid west where I had a reasonable chance of a corn field landing the idea was to land on the corntops as if it’s the runway. A rocky field would take some guts to do so but what choice if that’s the only one left. Do a normal landing onto the rocky field.

[Mike Gearon]

1 hour ago, Student Pilot said:

A slip has crossed controls skid usually not. Balanced flight always better, there are times when a slip can be used to loose height/speed. Some people who can't/don't want to crab down final in a crosswind use flying out of balance or a skid. I have always used crabbing.

I’ve been thinking about this with my 110 flying hours limited knowledge.
 

Can I use the following... As long as the wing in front of me is low and forward and I’m ground tracking in the right direction With sufficient airspeed (say best glide) the aircraft is in a relatively safe attitude. 

[Garfly]

I find only the main-action section of this video interesting and useful; say from 03:00 to 05:00

 

 

[Roundsounds]

On 22/02/2021 at 11:42 AM, Bosi72 said:

From this altitude, I would be heading direct towards the airport then spiraling/circling down. But could be the camera not doing it a justice, or pilot practiced there before. In any case, well done !

This is one of the worst training videos on forced landings I have watched. Says he cut out 20 mins of gliding? Assuming a descent rate of 500FPM he would have started at over 10,000’ AGL (500FPM is optimistic for a C150). The prop wouldn’t stop due to fuel exhaustion unless you reduced the speed to just above the stall. Turn into wind, that’s crap. If field and height selection allows you’re best to turn downwind - allows you to fly a circuit of sorts, much more scope to fix over / undershoot than a straight in approach. Nothing about securing the aircraft once a restart determined  as unsuccessful.

[Garfly]

Yeah, that refers to the video about 9 posts back (Feb21).

(Individual postings don't seem to have numbers anymore.)

 

[danny_galaga]

JG3 thanks for doing the experiment. There are quite a few of us here that operate similar aircraft so good to take note. While it's a notable difference, it's also nice to know that propped stopped is in the ballpark of prop spinning- I've never really known what the difference would be like. So if I keep doing regular practice, in an actual emergency i can be sure to remember to be a bit higher than I'm used to on final 🙂

Edited April 30, 2021 by danny_galaga

[facthunter]

Going back to Mike's question (March) it's not that simple if you have a fair bit of speed. You WILL load up the airframe. Sideslipping at low(er) speed doesn't so much and you get a steeper APPROACH angle because the plane is sliding sideways AND downwards with less forward speed.' Note a crabbing aeroplane is not skidding necessarily. When you fly across country and a crosswind exists you crab but don't cross controls to make good your chosen TRACK. That situation can also exist when on final where the crosswind will normally diminish a bit near the ground . Nev

[Bosi72]

On 04/03/2021 at 11:02 AM, Mike Gearon said:

As long as the wing in front of me is low and forward 

I would add ".. and nose below horizon.." as more important than anything else.. 

[spacesailor]

AND

Your not Inverted! . LoL

spacesailor

[Garfly]

 

 

[facthunter]

He only JUST made the end of the runway, Best to aim for well in,  especially with a long runway. Nev

[Garfly]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

He only JUST made the end of the runway, Best to aim for well in,  especially with a long runway. Nev

 

True, but I get the feeling that he well knew that.  He seemed to be well aware (even reminded himself out-loud) that even though he had the field made, maybe ten miles out, well into his (20 minute?) glide - prop stopped - from 9000' he could still f#%* the whole thing up at the last minute, the last seconds, even. But crucially, he kept his cool, apparently circling the landing field - keeping it in sight - until he sensed that it was the right moment to set up for a 'normal' downwind for a 'normal' landing. He pulled it off by his calm disciplined thinking, where many others have failed, even after they seemed to have it in the bag.

[kgwilson]

He certainly did it well. Personally I'd have come in high and side slipped to make sure I'd make it. Even though there was little wind, if there had been some decent sink on the final approach he would not have made it.

[planedriver]

On 13/01/2021 at 6:36 PM, spacesailor said:

Doen,t look used a lot. Like mine was 40 odd years ago, !.

spacesailor

 

Never mind spacey. Gotta take the rough with the smooth.

[Thruster88]

I would like to think I could be as cool as that pilot. He probably had the approach under control with plenty of speed and use of the powerful flaps when the landing was assured.  

[facthunter]

Didn't look to have anything up his sleeve the way I saw it. For any landing, landing on the extreme end of the runway is not smart.. On a runway that length,  landing 1/4 way down the runway would be the aim engine out. Nev

[Garfly]

Everyone, especially him, I suppose, would agree; he cut it fine.  The interesting take-away, for me, is that he pulled off the difficult trick of an 'easy' forced landing.

[facthunter]

I wouldn't regard any forced landing as easy, unless it's over a dry salt lake. Each one is capable of being misjudged and good planning would minimise the chances of not making it.. It's always better to hit the far fence at walking speed than the near one at flying speed or lose  control trying to stretch the glide... Nev