Prop stopped.

[Moneybox]

4 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I don't like the steep turn onto final  bit. and I would have let you DO your thing as that was what he was asking you to do initially. You end up not knowing what HE wants, and we all want to please our Instructor don't we?   Nev. 

 

I felt comfortable following his instruction, he's my trainer, I take it he knows the best procedure, I don't so I need to follow his lead and learn. I say a steep turn however it was just due to the speed we were travelling at and the need for a rapid decent. I'm guilty of turning my rectangular circuit into more of an oval. My secondary instructor has me doing a 30° banked turn apart from during the accent. 

[RFguy]

I agree, I would have let you do your own thing and observed how you did . Maybe  on a 2nd go at it, the instructor could demonstrate turning airspeed into altitude. 

There's no better way to learn than doing it by yourself

My instructor Rob would probably have let me have a fist of it and observed what I did and then on the ground or at another time, discussed/workshop-ed it,

 

but, every instructor  has their own methods, nothing particularly wrong either way.......

 

....I dont mind the steep turn at 500'  onto final if I have heaps of airspeed, height  and that I know I can bleed off that airspeed with a heap of drag out when the time comes.   That's all experience....

Be mindful that (deadstick) steep  turning  onto final is going to be done with a high loss of altitude..... My (clean) Piper at max weight, 45 deg bank ,  I would be flying at 85 kts to pull that off... (15 kts above stall for that weight and bank) ......and I probably am going to loose 500' doing it....(15-20 seconds)  I usually fly that manouver by looking at where I want to land with one eye (out the side window.....) , and another eye on airspeed and bank angle....- pitching the aircraft down sufficiently to keep the airspeed high. IE in those cases I am flying airspeed, and everything else on the panel  is a distant secondary - except maybe bank angle........ No real need to look at the altimeter  in those cases, you probably have no idea of the ground height and experience will permit you to judge 'enough height',,,,

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 08:14 AM by RFguy

[facthunter]

Why intentionally LOAD yourself up in a critical situation.? NOT a good idea. Demonstrating something is wasting flight time. That's better  done pre flight.  IF it's at a pre test situation OK but not a learning one..  Nev.

Edited Sunday at 08:19 AM by facthunter

[RFguy]

Usually there is a broad overview and background "briefing" for what will be covered  before a flight...  But instructors can do what they please if they think  it is useful .. all a judgement call, varies person to person...

 

Though, Nev, I agree, steep turn onto final is something more advanced and for the experienced. Doesnt hurt for the the instructor to demonstrate what is possible, as long as caveats are spelt out....

Edited Sunday at 08:26 AM by RFguy

[Bernie]

One of my instructors hit the master switch off..we had just turned downwind @ Hervey bay.told me to aim at the centre of the runway, and as we got closer to start aiming back towards the threshold. I ended up just doing a normal landing...it did at first scare the crap out of me .

I do remember saying I was going to bash the crap out of him when we land... but I forgot to do it...

Bernie.

[Garfly]

Some interesting observations by Scott Perdue in this vid.

(He spends the first five minutes on what viewers got wrong in his previous video.  This one starts in earnest after that.

 

 

 

 

Perdue's video prompted this Comment (among others) from one CFI:

@christophvz

2 years ago (edited)

Thank you for another thoughtful and informative video Scott! These are excellent points and I fully agree with what you said. Your previous video inspired me to practice emergency landings in the real airplane (C182) and spend several hours in my BATD (Redbird TD2). One thing I’ve realized is that I’ve always taught my students just the abridged version - i.e. follow the ABC - Airspeed, Best Place to Land, Checklist. But now I’m realizing that there are more practical considerations that ought to be thought through carefully and practiced extensively. Below are some key points that I’m writing down in my CFI notes. Curious about feedback from other fellow pilots and instructors here.

 

Emergency landing - key points

 

1. Pitch for Vdmms (defined minimum maneuvering speed, 1.404 x Vs, 72 kts in Cessna T182T), trim to reduce control pressure, and fly at that speed all the way to the ground; do not go above it and do not go below it until flare. Going above it will increase your kinetic energy which will be difficult to manage. Going below it will bring you closer to a stall and loss of control. Just fly Vdmms all the way to the ground.

2. Aim for the best available landing spot, ideally an open field, a runway, a road, a beach, dense trees, or water, in that order. Prioritize not hurting anyone on the ground before saving yourself. Runway is your second best option (unless you are in a tight traffic pattern already or in a high overhead position) because it will make it difficult to consider other options. I call it runway(titis). Aim for either straight in or low key position, or downwind high key position to your intended landing spot.

3. Continuously reevaluate if you can make your intended landing spot and choose the second best option if you know it’s not going to work out; judge if you can make it using your sight picture (i.e. angular distance); do not attempt to stretch the glide. If it’s not working out, accept your situation and remind yourself that your biggest risk is losing control of the airplane. So don’t.

4. Do not make turns below 500 feet; the loss in lift will induce an urge to pull back which will be extremely difficult to resist. Better to crash wings level into a suboptimal space than lose control close to the ground. You only need 30 ft of distance to stop and survive the 9G crash (see FAA flying handbook Chapter 17: Emergency Procedures).

5. Do not put full flaps until landing is 100% assured and you’re ready to flare. Unlatch the doors before touch down. Aim to be slightly high realizing that winds can shift close to the ground. Give yourself good safety buffer (i.e. avoid aiming for the edge of the field for example). 6. Evacuate promptly; do not just sit in the airplane thinking that the worst is behind you. It ain’t over till it’s over.