New Flyer

[madas]

I’m looking at some information for newbies, in particular:
 

1. What is the theory commitment for each of the RPL and PPL? I have a Masters level education, so theory isn’t new to me but I’m keen to know about the time commitment in advance. 
2. How easy is it to rent a plane, say, a Cessna for one day or multiple days?

3. How much is a low end Cessna cost to purchase? I saw some advertised for as little as AUD55,000. 
4. What are the costs associated with owning a plane such as hanger, airport and maintenance costs?

5. Is it easy to travel to various airports from Melbourne? 
6. Any other insights / tips for someone just wanting to start out?

My primary objective of looking into flying is to see more of Australia. It’s a big country but with COVID, domestic travel is now more important. I have some time off work early 2021 and want to use the time to do some travel and I’ve always loved flying. 
 

 

 

[BirdDog]

G'day mate, and welcome.

 

I cant answer all of them, but I can give you my experiences.

 

I am RAA Rec Certified pilot, and aircraft owner.   The first question I would ask is why do you want PPL?  Do you need it?  As in, do you expect to fly more than just you and 1 Pax etc etc?    Can you get away with it in RAA.  When you answer that question, you will start to get an idea on costs etc.  I will give a small comparison to start, but there are other factors,


RAA Cert with a Nav - you could realistically gain this for as little as $8000.  Maybe less depending how you go.

PPL - Somewhere around $16,000

 

RAA Aircraft are cheaper to maintain (you can even maintain it yourself)  If you are PPL and in the GA space, then your maintenance costs go up for sure.

 

My aircraft carries 2 and has about a 6 hour endurance (less with a good reserve) and burns regular unleaded at about 17L/H.  In a larger GA bird, you will be burning AvGAS ($2.50P/L) and more litres per hour depending on the bird.

My aircraft is in rented hangar space that I share with the owner of the handar.  Works out about $60 a week.  But you could get it more, and you could get it less.

RAA registered birds can start pretty cheap, but can also cost a fortune, depending on what you want.

 

The PPL learning curve is obviously more than the RAA learning curve.  It will take you longer in the books, and in the air - for obvious reasons.

So the first question you need to ask yourself - Do you NEED a PPL? Then you will know what way to head.

I fly RAA because it allows me to have fun in aviation, at a reasonable cost.  If I was in GA, I don't think I could afford it.

Just my 0.2
 

[madas]

@BirdDogThanks for the reply. I appreciate the insights. 
 

I didn’t even know about the RAA Cert option until after I posted, so it’s good to hear someone else went for that. I am thinking that is the better option for me; at least initially. I’m initially just looking at taking up to 1x other passenger and flying to regional areas of Victoria, South Australia and maybe Tasmania. 
 

The only concern I have with a RAA Cert is the size of permitted aircraft. I am a bigger bloke (188cm, 130kgs) so something like a Cessna 172 or larger is what I’m looking to fly in the short to medium term. I’m not sure how to figure out all the restrictions with the licences as they refer to different weights. Do you know the aircraft weight limitations for the RAA Certificate? Would it include a Cessna 172? 

 

Cheers

[pmccarthy]

Weight is a problem. I have both RAA and GA licence/certificate but fly GA due weight. I am 122 Kg and cannot carry a passenger and reasonable fuel for a trip with small baggage in RA types. Also check seat weight limits which apply in RA, due to safety issues with vertical G forces and structural failure in an accident. I am hopeful increased weight limits in RA may solve this eventually.

[BirdDog]

Yep - As stated above, weight is your issue.

 

RAA currently have MTOW of 600KG.  My bird has this but is limited once you add 1 pax and fuel.

You could go CASA Rec Licence which will allow you to fly a larger machine - still cheaper than PPL.

[facthunter]

SOME of your certificate experience counts for GA (VH) and even more the other way around.. You really need more than the minimum hours and if you get into smaller strips you might consider a Tailwheel configuration. .as more versatile. Cessna Flaps work well and they lift   weights out at fairly low speeds and land fairly slow. What cost? Well I guarantee it's MORE than whatever you thought it might be. Insurance for a low hours pilot will be difficult. Keep persisting with your enguiries as it's a unique experience when you do it. Good preparation and planning essential and knowledge of weather. .If you have limited experience with light aircraft I'd consider arranging a shared flight with someone reasonably experienced in the outback side of things... Nev

[APenNameAndThatA]

I don’t have a clue about how long the theory will take. I expect it will depend what education you have already done. If you studied high school physics and maths, that will help. Specifically, the physics of gasses and of the acceleration, energy and momentum of masses. And the maths of vectors, trigonometry, algebra, and a little calculus. If you did any navigation or orienteering or messed about with mechanical things that would help. Someone said sailing helped. I had never sailed but I expect that it would definitely help. If you have exposure to the above, very little will be completely foreign. 
 

Bob Taits books are probably the gold standard, but imperfect. To learn enough for the PPL is about 800 pages. Maybe ⅔ of that for the RAAus Certificate. 
 

Some say you should learn three hours on the ground for every hour in the air. So 30 x 4 = 120 hours. Round up to 200 and that’s my guess. Others might disagree. But I thought I would give a shot at answering. 

[BirdDog]

I don't know the time for PPL, but the RAA theory is not what I would call tough.  You can self study at home with the Bob Tait books in between ground and air time with the instructor.  

 

If you then wanted to move into full Rec Licence, there is a short crossover course.

[skippydiesel]

From my limited perspective (PPL Ga & RAA Cert) - the little I saw of the RAA cert theory (when I did my conversion) seemed to be pretty much what I did as a PPL Ga. No idea what the pass mark/rate between the two is. As for as the PPL Ga is concerned - I recon almost anyone with a couple of low energy brain cells can get through it - perseverance & more perseverance, is the key, not academic ability or high IQ.

[Yenn]

I did PPL theory many years ago, but I was still well away from formal education age. Because I was interested in the theory I found it easy and did Commercial. It probably took me about six months of part time evening study.

Cost wise it may be cheaper to go the RAAus way, but you have to join and pay a yearly fee, whereas with GA you only have a one off fee for the issue of a licence. RAAus does have insurance for its aircraft as a standard.

GA requires a Class 2 or basic Class 2 medical and I forget how long it lasts, but over 75 I think it is only one year. Not a particularly hard standard to attain. RAAus requires a drivers licence medical standard.

Buying a GA plane such as a Cessna 172 is not all that expensive, but the low price could be offset by buying a plane which needed a lot of maintenance, which has to be done by a Licenced Aviation mechanic (LAME).

Ease of travelling to and from airports, I assume you mean by air. GA is easy, although you are not going to want to go into the major airports such as Melbourne international. Landing and handling fees are monstrous for them. many other airports have landing fees and some even add them up for every landing even if you are training. One thing you may not be aware of is that a lot of airports are way out of town, with poor public transport. Just great to turn up at say Thangool and have to wait about an hour for a taxi to get to you. That in my opinion is the worst thing about flying.

Renting a plane used to be easy, but I haven't needed to rent for over twenty years, so am well out of touch as I am with hangar costs etc.

One thing about the difference between RAAus and GA is that I find GA planes to be ponderous and sluggish, compared with RAAus planes, but that is because I fly my own planes. You as a beginner would not have high expectations.

Whatever you decide, flying is just about one of the greatest things you can do. It will tax you during the learning phase and keep you interested for the rest of your life. It will be expensive, but so is smoking or going to the cinema or a cafe for what has become a very expensive coffee. If you do fly you will always feel better about yourself and have self confidence, although it may ebb slightly with age, it started with me at 80 years old, but that is way back now.

Just go for it.

[derekliston]

I have a PPL but fly a Zenith CH701 which can also be registered RAA. Be aware that most of the Cessnas and Pipers are getting quite long in the tooth unless you want to fork out nearly the price of a QLD house for a new one. The high wing Cessnas are affected by the SIDS programme, get someone who knows more than I do to explain that one to you. Piper PA28 series aircraft have also just f

recently been hit with an airworthiness directive which could see owners forking out a small fortune and in some cases perhaps scrapping their aircraft! The lighter recreational types are definitely the way to go now in my view. You will find a lot of Jabiru haters on this forum but it is I suspect, the most successful Australian designed and built aircraft ever! It is available in several versions, one of which I am sure would accommodate you and a passenger, but talk to Jabiru aircraft Bundaberg for better, fuller information.

[red750]

What part of Melbourne are you from, madas?