SOAR receivers auction

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

They probably should be cheap......after a possible Flying School flogging......?

Couldn't agree more - Aircraft "on line" with flying schools get worked hard.

 

For the hours recorded, they do incredible number of start, take-off & landing cycles - think of all that wear and tear on almost every little bit - even things like switches - yep! replaceable but all those "little" items add up to a potentially expensive acquisition.

 

If you dont buy cheap, your an auctioneers fantasy and of questionable sense.

[kgwilson]

Pickles are dreaming or they think they are selling to gullible idiots but sometimes these exist. I've been to real auctions for cars where a couple of bidders raise the price well beyond what they originally wanted to pay by getting caught up in the process. I've bought stuff at live auctions including 2 houses and also sold houses by auction & the bidding process works fairly much the same as described by OT except that when you are the highest and the reserve has not been met they halt the auction & have a yarn to the seller then come back to you to try to get you to increase your offer if the seller won't budge. If you say no then they will then restart the auction and call for more bids. If none come it is passed in & negotiations begin between you & the seller & their auctioneer.

 

They can also be unscrupulous and say there is another bid higher than yours and begin the auction with an auctioneers bid (but not announcing it as such which is not legal) to try & get you to go up. This happened to me when bidding on a house but I didn't take the bait & walked out only to be chased down the road by one of the auctioneers staff to ask if I'd be interested in negotiating. I really liked the property but had set my price so said no & as I drove home kept kicking myself for not going that little bit extra to secure it. A few hours later I got a call from the agent saying the owner had agreed to my price. All they were thinking of was their commission & browbeat the seller into accepting. Make no mistake Auctioneers are interested in only one thing, themselves.

 

I have never had to pay a buyers premium even on line but that seems to be an increasing trend so you have to factor that in when bidding. It's an absolute ripoff in my opinion & I won't even participate if that is part of the process. We recently needed a mower for the airfield & there were several offered through Grays Online & gave them a miss due to the high sellers and buyers commissions plus GST on the whole lot. Bought one privately from another airfield and I reckon we saved heaps. 

[spacesailor]

Just looking at Pickles & it looks like  !.

NO CoA, MR. registration OR anything helpful 

spacesailor

[skippydiesel]

18 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

Pickles are dreaming or they think they are selling to gullible idiots but sometimes these exist. I've been to real auctions for cars where a couple of bidders raise the price well beyond what they originally wanted to pay by getting caught up in the process. I've bought stuff at live auctions including 2 houses and also sold houses by auction & the bidding process works fairly much the same as described by OT except that when you are the highest and the reserve has not been met they halt the auction & have a yarn to the seller then come back to you to try to get you to increase your offer if the seller won't budge. If you say no then they will then restart the auction and call for more bids. If none come it is passed in & negotiations begin between you & the seller & their auctioneer.

 

They can also be unscrupulous and say there is another bid higher than yours and begin the auction with an auctioneers bid (but not announcing it as such which is not legal) to try & get you to go up. This happened to me when bidding on a house but I didn't take the bait & walked out only to be chased down the road by one of the auctioneers staff to ask if I'd be interested in negotiating. I really liked the property but had set my price so said no & as I drove home kept kicking myself for not going that little bit extra to secure it. A few hours later I got a call from the agent saying the owner had agreed to my price. All they were thinking of was their commission & browbeat the seller into accepting. Make no mistake Auctioneers are interested in only one thing, themselves.

 

I have never had to pay a buyers premium even on line but that seems to be an increasing trend so you have to factor that in when bidding. It's an absolute ripoff in my opinion & I won't even participate if that is part of the process. We recently needed a mower for the airfield & there were several offered through Grays Online & gave them a miss due to the high sellers and buyers commissions plus GST on the whole lot. Bought one privately from another airfield and I reckon we saved heaps. 

I agree - ALWAYS know your max price befor you start bidding NEVER go that little bit more,   likely you will regret going there.

[old man emu]

4 hours ago, Panorama said:

Receivers don't nessasarily accept the best price on an asset more the most convenient offer.

Quite true. The job of the liquidator is to recover the most money to repay outstanding debt, as soon as possible. We forget that as soon as a Judgement is made, interest on the debt begins to come due.

[NT5224]

On 19/02/2021 at 9:53 PM, onetrack said:

Jack, if you take a look at the link to the Pickles auction put up by Petercoota, you will see the following inspection information;

 

Inspection: Moorabbin: Monday, 1 March 2021 from 10:00am until 4:00pm
Bankstown: Friday, 26 February 2021 from 10:00am until 4:00pm

 

On inspection days, you are allowed to wander through all the items listed for auction and inspect them without starting them or unscrewing panels. If a panel is easily removable and replaceable with hand-operated clips or fasteners, you would more than likely be allowed to remove those panels for inspection - provided they were replaced correctly and securely.

 

However, a call to the Pickles representative who is in charge of that particular auction inspection will soon clarify what is allowed in the inspection process.

Naturally, starting engines would not be allowed, and I doubt whether access to the cockpit (sitting in it) would be allowed, either.

Hi folks!

 

Out of interest are there any legal implications to the sale of aircraft where the seller does not allow inspection for airworthiness as part of the sale? Will logs/ maintenance releases be available for inspection by buyers? Or is the situation exactly the same as buying an old used car unseen, and the expectation it will probably drop its guts on the freeway on your drive home? 

 

Cheers

 

 Alan 

 

 

 

 

[old man emu]

38 minutes ago, NT5224 said:

are there any legal implications

Caveat emptor would be the answer to that one.

 

I doubt if any legislation which sets rules for the operation of aircraft or qualifications of pilots would involve itself in a civil contract involving the exchange of title to goods. All the regulations would say is that if you gain title to an aircraft, and want to fly it, then you must advise the authority of the name and contact details of the owner. If you wanted to buy a plane and make a static display of it, you would not have to tell the authorities.

 

If Pickles are selling the planes, I think that you will find in their Ts&Cs that logbooks are available for inspection. I'm sure that someone has said that already.

[onetrack]

The sale description is pretty clear .....

 

QUOTE:  "Military aircraft are not registered with CASA and are being sold on an 'As Is, Where Is' basis, with no CoA, CoR or MR. All maintenance logged in CAMM2. CAMM2 data support unavailable after purchase."

 

https://www.pickles.com.au/trucks/item/-/details/01-1991-Pilatus-Aircraft-Ltd--Hawker-De-Havilland-PC-9-License--Model--PC-9-A-Turboprop-Serial-No--544/1020118638

 

The live link to the aircraft full T's & C's of sale, is not working yet. I'd say this link will become live about a day before the auction start time (on the 12th March).

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by onetrack

[spacesailor]

Can somebody explain what Camm is?.

  "  logged in CAMM2. CAMM2 data support "

spacesailor

[onetrack]

CAMM = Computer-Aided Maintenance Management system. I don't know where the "2" came from. Maybe CAMM1 was a flop, and they had to re-work it, to produce CAMM2.

 

https://www.afr.com/companies/manufacturing/raaf-flies-high-on-groundwork-19960906-k74xx#:~:text=The RAAF's secret support weapon,for Australia's frontline aerial defences.

[spacesailor]

SO

If all the pertinent information is on that program we  cannot get access to CoA CoR or any attachment. 

AFTER we pay our money.

Am l right here ?.

spacesailor

[onetrack]

Spacey, you got it right. "As-is, Where-is" means you pay your money, and you take your chances, just like Alans used car, "dropping its guts", analogy.

[pmccarthy]

With no maintenance history can they ever be registered with CASA or are you buying a collection of parts?

[old man emu]

7 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

With no maintenance history can they ever be registered with CASA or are you buying a collection of parts?

https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/default/files/_assets/main/rules/1998casr/021/advisory-circular-21-02-standard-certificates-airworthiness.pdf

 

[Roscoe]

On 24/02/2021 at 11:38 PM, spacesailor said:

SO

If all the pertinent information is on that program we  cannot get access to CoA CoR or any attachment. 

AFTER we pay our money.

Am l right here ?.

spacesailor

Well i dropped in to the viewing this arvo and was told all paperwork was available for perusal.

[SplitS]

1 hour ago, Roscoe said:

Well i dropped in to the viewing this arvo and was told all paperwork was available for perusal.

Anything you buy would be a down grade from your J170.

[Roscoe]

There were at least 15 Aircraft there, they presented very well.

All had full glass instrumentation, all were polished up to a mirror shine.

Foxbats, Bristells, Tecnams,, Aquila, and a Tecnam Twin.

Interestingly, at 2pm I was the only tyre kicker in attendance

[old man emu]

17 minutes ago, Roscoe said:

Interestingly, at 2pm I was the only tyre kicker in attendance

Did you happen to ask if the aircraft has Reserve prices on them?

[Roscoe]

13 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Did you happen to ask if the aircraft has Reserve prices on them?

No sorry.

The Pickles bloke in charge is GAVIN and you could contact him on the Pickles website aviation section.

He was taking phone calls while i was there and didnt get a chance to speak to him

[SGM]

I'm not sure if it helps anyone here, but I enquired of SOAR directly in August 2020.

Below is what I was told.   Note: I thought they were over-priced and bought elsewhere.
 

Aeroprakt A22LS Foxbat details
Rego	S/No	YOM	TTIS(Hrs)
MELBOURNE: Moorabbin
23-8842	307	2017	1,095.4	A$ 72,000
23-8843	309	2017	900.8	A$ 74,950
24-8245	150	2012	1,519.6	A$ 59,950
24-8716	254	2016	892.1	A$ 72,950

NOTE: All SOAR aircraft maintenance is subcontracted to the Full Throttle Aviation in Moorabbin"

 

[RFguy]

the 912s seem to be mostly mid life.  probably 15 to 20% too high for auction (where there is a caveat emptor implicit discount) . 

55k including the buyers premium  for an unknown vixxen might be OK. allow new engine and airframe work I guess.

gather they have been sitting outside for months and months  in the sun and weather ???

[Roscoe]

1 hour ago, RFguy said:

the 912s seem to be mostly mid life.  probably 15 to 20% too high for auction (where there is a caveat emptor implicit discount) . 

55k including the buyers premium  for an unknown vixxen might be OK. allow new engine and airframe work I guess.

gather they have been sitting outside for months and months  in the sun and weather ???

The Bankstown fleet was Hangared

Edited February 27, 2021 by Roscoe

[tillmanr]

All paperwork has been available at Moorabbin with servicing up to date. An MR is provided for VH.

[PommyRick]

The first of three auctions concluded this evening, a flurry of activity in the final few minutes. 
 One of the yellow VH Bristells with 795 hours went for $81.5k whilst the older red/yellow RAA one crept over the $100k mark. 

[onetrack]

Rick, are those figures the final bid prices, or the total sale prices, with buyers premium included? The BP adds a hefty amount to the bid price.