24 Registered Maintenance Schedule Latitude

[kiwiaviator]

I have been searching for a definitive statement on maintenance schedule latitude for 24 registered aircraft. My experience in the Eastern Isles (NZ) was 10% ie. on a 50 hr you can  go out to 55 hours however its not cumulative. Does anyone know what the story is here in the western isle? The RAAus Technical Manual doesn't appear to mention it. Cheers.

[skippydiesel]

As the bulk of routine maintenance is engine related I suggest you refer to the makers instructions on the matter.

 

Rotax (9 series) allow +/- 10 hrs - Personally I would never make it cumulative, again my personal preference is to always service on the relevant number eg 100, 200, 300 hrs etc. If a "catch up" is required for some reason, I will do a short interval to get back on track/schedule.

[kiwiaviator]

3 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

As the bulk of routine maintenance is engine related I suggest you refer to the makers instructions on the matter.

 

Rotax (9 series) allow +/- 10 hrs - Personally I would never make it cumulative, again my personal preference is to always service on the relevant number eg 100, 200, 300 hrs etc. If a "catch up" is required for some reason, I will do a short interval to get back on track/schedule.

Thanks for your input skippydiesel. Agree on the non cumulative. Behind the curve in anything is not a good spot.

[APenNameAndThatA]

As you know, you can go 10% late on certified GA aircraft, ( but the next service needs to be correspondingly early). 

[old man emu]

Isn't that +/- x Hrs just to cover rare contingencies?

 

Say you decide to fly around the country via the coast and do you planning to ensure that you will be back home by the time a 50 or 100 hourly bit of maintenance comes due. The while you are away, you do a bit more sightseeing than you expected and have clocked up five or six more hours than you had planned for. There's nothing wrong with coming home with the hours a tad overdue. You can do your maintenance , and then do it again 50 or 100 hours after the originally scheduled hours. It's a bit of a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul, but you've got to payback Peter.

[kiwiaviator]

On 20/02/2021 at 8:24 PM, old man emu said:

Isn't that +/- x Hrs just to cover rare contingencies?

 

Say you decide to fly around the country via the coast and do you planning to ensure that you will be back home by the time a 50 or 100 hourly bit of maintenance comes due. The while you are away, you do a bit more sightseeing than you expected and have clocked up five or six more hours than you had planned for. There's nothing wrong with coming home with the hours a tad overdue. You can do your maintenance , and then do it again 50 or 100 hours after the originally scheduled hours. It's a bit of a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul, but you've got to payback Peter.

Absolutely old man emu. Its just that I can't find any guidance on the tolerances for RAAus registered aircraft.

[Roscoe]

32 minutes ago, kiwiaviator said:

Absolutely old man emu. Its just that I can't find any guidance on the tolerances for RAAus registered aircraft.

The Jabiru Manuals give clear guidance. 

As mentioned earlier, the specific Aircraft Manufacturer is the source.

I dont think RAA can help with this, give them a call to confirm the above.

[kasper]

22 minutes ago, Roscoe said:

The Jabiru Manuals give clear guidance. 

As mentioned earlier, the specific Aircraft Manufacturer is the source.

I dont think RAA can help with this, give them a call to confirm the above.

If you are factory built (whatever the design standard) RAAus cannot override maintnenace set out by the manufacturer UNLESS they chose to under MARAP.

 

With the engine, prop and the instruments within a factory build the manufacturer generally simply calls out the maintenance as per the component manufacturers schedule.

 

If the aircraft manufacturer calls out or replicates the component manufacturers maintenance schedule then there is no wriggle room under RAAus if there is no allowance within those called out schedules.

 

I can only think of a couple of cases where an airframe manufacturer specifically excluded the engine manufacturers maintenance/overhaul schedule and replaced it with their own so basically you are left to the maintenance lists fo trhe airframe/engine manufacturer.

 

The only area where RAAus does/has effectively used MARAP to replace the requirements of a manufacturer is on-condition running of engines.  This allowance is in effect a form of MARAP where RAAus takes on the airworthiness of a component in an airframe BUT that is limited in operations - use an airframe for training and reward through a school and it's by the book all the way, no on condition running.

 

Practically what you are up against when you have exceeded a maintenance period or overhaul life that applies to your airframe or a component within that airframe is:

1. you have a technical breach of the tech manual - that is an administrative action for RAAus to enforce under the RAAus structure and they have no history of enforcement

2. you have a technical breach of the tech manual - that is a breach of the CAO that the aircraft is registered and operates under (we are reuqired to maintain it in accordance with the Tech Manual) and that is an enforcement action by CASA and they have no hidtory of enforcement for minor/inadvertant contracventions

3. you have a technical breach of the tech manual - that is a risk for insurance coverage (either under RAAus group policy or any individual policy you may have) and I cannot comment on enforecement of insurance companies against owners/pilots ... but these are the ones that have the interest in not providing coverage or seeking recovery of cover from individuals and the resources and mind set to turn on you.

 

So your risk is breaching/non-complicance with the RAAus tech manual and that breach/non-compliance leaves you open to three general areas of action as outlines above.

[Yenn]

I think you will find that there is no tolerance. In GA operations you can exceed the hours, but you have to get approval from someone acceptable to CASA and that will cost you several hundred dollars.

[old man emu]

A LAME who is satisfied that the item, usually an engine, is still within manufacturer's specs can authorise "On Condition" use, but most LAMEs would only do that for aircraft they have serviced themselves over many years.   Bring in your bargain purchase and it won't be a bargain much longer.

[Jim McDowall]

The Jabiru Technical Manual JTM01-10 issued in January this year says on page 42:

5.1 Service Interval Tolerance

• A tolerance of plus or minus 3 hours is allowable on all service intervals set within this manual

The Inspection /service chart begins on page 44 and detsils the required inspections etc. for 100, 200 and annual inspections. There may be aditional requirements in the engine maintenance manual. 

[kiwiaviator]

Thanks all. I think the picture is a bit clearer in my head now.

[old man emu]

Moral of the story is to get your maintenance done before you set out on a trip that could possibly longer than you think. 

 

[Yenn]

Kiwi at the start of this debate you mentioned maintenance, no mention of engine maintenance. I think you will find that airframe maintenance does not allow extending the hours or date past that authorised by the annual.

[old man emu]

Isn't all maintenance, airframe (including instruments) and engines for simple aircraft all based on the same times? Either annually by calendar or hours recorded by a TTIS system, usually tacho or Hobbs time?

 

As the aircraft gets more complicated, individual components can have their own schedules, but still based on TTIS, or cycles of operation (pressurization of cabins, landing gear).

[skippydiesel]

3 hours ago, Yenn said:

Kiwi at the start of this debate you mentioned maintenance, no mention of engine maintenance. I think you will find that airframe maintenance does not allow extending the hours or date past that authorised by the annual.

As a glass fantastic flier his airframe maintenance should be minimal (I am not suggesting that there is none)

[RossK]

3 hours ago, Yenn said:

Kiwi at the start of this debate you mentioned maintenance, no mention of engine maintenance. I think you will find that airframe maintenance does not allow extending the hours or date past that authorised by the annual.

Our Maintenance Manual says 100hrs +/- 5hrs, but if you do it at 102hrs, the next is due in 98hrs 

[Thruster88]

26 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

As a glass fantastic flier his airframe maintenance should be minimal (I am not suggesting that there is none)

If you think about it Skippy the following systems are the same for all aircraft regardless of the material used for the airframe. Engine, electrical, fuel system, brakes and wheels, control cables push rods and bell cranks, control surface hinges, windows, avionics, instruments and pitot static system, seats and harnesses. Yes we look for cracks and corrosion while inspecting metal aircraft, composite airframes need inspection as well. I have a 58 year old all metal aircraft that is ageing very well.

[old man emu]

5 hours ago, RossK said:

Our Maintenance Manual says 100hrs +/- 5hrs, but if you do it at 102hrs, the next is due in 98hrs 

What about calendar time? Surely you don't do 100+ hrs in a calendar year?

[RossK]

15 hours ago, old man emu said:

What about calendar time? Surely you don't do 100+ hrs in a calendar year?

Haven't had it that long yet, planes done 41hrs since acquisition in Nov 20.

Calendar time is 12 months, +/- 2months, so can go out to 14 months.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, RossK said:

, planes done 41hrs since acquisition in Nov 20.

That's a lot of time for recreational flying. Not many others would clock up times like that. It will be interesting to see how many months it takes to clock up the next 59 hours.

[RossK]

12 minutes ago, old man emu said:

That's a lot of time for recreational flying. Not many others would clock up times like that. It will be interesting to see how many months it takes to clock up the next 59 hours.

It's a shared ownership, the other owner has just done his x-country endo in it.

Mission for both of us it to get away regularly and see more of this great country of ours, so it'll likely do 10hrs a month.

[old man emu]

5 hours ago, RossK said:

Mission for both of us it to get away regularly and see more of this great country of ours,

Tell me how many hours you fly in 2022