CTA ?

[antzx6r]

I am sorry J430. I really didn't mean to direct my comments at you personally. I ment to disagree, and to approach the global impression the public and GA pilots have of RAA. Limiting the training we get and keeping us out of CTA, is like saying "it's not a real licence - stay out of our way".

 

Your right, it needs to be segragated as one type of flying or the other, but not real flying and half baked, untrained, cowboy flying. The reason the name was changed(appart from the stigma of "ultralight") was that we stand for the recreational side of flight, not the career/business side. That doesn't mean we have to stay basic as it were.

 

I studied from Aviation Theory Centre material for RAA training. Dealt with all aspects of MET and flight planning, using only ded reconing and some VOR/NDB. My instructor said here's a GPS, this is what it does. Don't use it for training. My intent is go on to aerobatic and build. So at the moment, that means GA even tho it's for recreation... do you see my point? I don't want to cut any corners. I want to be as professional as it gets. It would just be great if you didn't have to proceed on a course for ATPL just to do some loops etc.

 

Just a thought.

 

:big_grin:

 

Ant

 

 

[Guest J430]

no need to be sorry, No offense taken, I knew what you meant, but thought I should back it up.

 

J:thumb_up:

 

PS : No need for half baked and cowboy training either, just that if you want all the other "add ons" do the PPL. For those that don't, do the RAA and do it thoroughly. I just see that it gets to be like .....well a CPL can fly a Dash-8....so why not, kind of thinking.

 

You do not need to do ATPL to do basic aero's. You do need a PPL, appropriate training and aircraft (build an RV-7 or 8) and be safe. The RAA can not and should not have to cope with the training and administrative nightmare that comes with all the extra endorsements and complexities. If it does then watch the costs balloon out of control......and then a whopping great deal of folk will be whinging.

 

 

[vk3auu]

The main problem with all the endorsements is that there are only a limited number of instructors out there who are qualified to instruct to those levels, just as 20 years ago, there were a few instructors who were not too hot on the nav side of things. It will take some time for them to catch up with all the new syllabi, particularly the ones who don't have PPL.

 

David

 

 

[hakjac]

Hi all As very new, but I feel well trained RAA Pilot thanks to my instructors,here is my current situation. The airfield that I fly at is adjascent to a RPT Capital city airport, and falls within the CTA of that airport. Since day one of my training I have been flying in and out of CTA.(with all the clearance requests and radio calls that go with that, as well as responding to tower requests to alter course or runway to facilitate RPT Jets and other traffic ) I did my first solo in CTA, when I was allowed to fly to the training area solo, which is out of controlled area I did so, then back again to land ETC. Now I have my RAA Pilot certificate and am allowed to fly within 25nm of the airfield. Provided that I get authorisation from one of our instructors to do so.

 

This makes me feel so second rate, that after all my training I still have to ask permission to go flying because I don't have a PPL, but have been doing what all the PPL pilots do for the past two years.

 

It might seem strange to some PPL GA pilots, but I feel like a proper pilot.

 

The CTA indorsement on the certificate will be most welcom, and I think CASA should be encouraged to proceed with haste in this area.

 

I love Flying and see the need for good training, but RAA flying should not be looked down on, it is the way of the future.

 

I probably will go on to do my PPL if I am spared enough life to do it.

 

Love this forum. Henry

 

 

[philipnz]

I've just completed my microlight license in NZ (a week ago) and it would appear that it is the most hours licence to get of them all.

 

The NZ PPL license requirements are 50 hours total, 15 hours solo. The Microlight license requires 35 hours solo before you can be passenger rated. In practice you need at least 35 hours dual to cover the syllabus so there is no way you will get it under 70 hours plus flight test time.

 

Our license has no restrictions (than vfr day only) and controlled airspace is something that we spent about 5 hours on. Our cross country (2 dual, 2 solo of at least 2 hours flying time each) has to be done without GPS and include 2 outlandings and diversions

 

We do one less exam that PPL (human factors)

 

When I tell people i have my license I add microlight and feel a little bit second rate. I'd say most people regard the microlight license as something well short of a PPL. Thats a shame as the requirements here are very similar

 

 

[Flyer]

You do not need to do ATPL to do basic aero's. You do need a PPL, appropriate training and aircraft (build an RV-7 or 8) and be safe. The RAA can not and should not have to cope with the training and administrative nightmare that comes with all the extra endorsements and complexities. If it does then watch the costs balloon out of control......and then a whopping great deal of folk will be whinging.

I would have to agree with J430 here. Recreational flying or ultralights or however you want to twist it is just that. Hop into a plane and go for a fly and enjoy it. Be recreationed.

 

If you want the add ons you need to take a further step up the ladder to PPL or CPL or wherever it is you wish to go.

 

RAA is a great place to learn basic aircraft handling skills in a low pressure environment. Learn these skills well so you dont have to think about it when the pressure gets turned up by doing CTA endorsements, aeros, complying with tower instructions while it all goes to hell in a handcart.

 

Hakjac, If you've flown a plane solo you ARE a real pilot :thumb_up:. Dont feel second rate. RAA is a great place to start. If you want to go further you need to climb the ladder, maybe to PPL standard only is all you need.

 

I dont understand why do you need permission to go flying though? :confused:

 

The sooner we lose the us and them situation the better.:thumb_up: The sooner we work out that RAA, PPL, CPL and ATPL is the natural progression of a pilot to achieve what s/he wants from their flying the better. :thumb_up:

 

My 5 cents.....

 

Regards

 

Phil

 

 

[Guest airsick]

The airfield that I fly at is adjascent to a RPT Capital city airport, and falls within the CTA of that airport. Since day one of my training I have been flying in and out of CTA.(with all the clearance requests and radio calls that go with that, as well as responding to tower requests to alter course or runway to facilitate RPT Jets and other traffic ) I did my first solo in CTA, when I was allowed to fly to the training area solo, which is out of controlled area I did so, then back again to land ETC. Now I have my RAA Pilot certificate and am allowed to fly within 25nm of the airfield. Provided that I get authorisation from one of our instructors to do so.

This is interesting. Reading through the CASA regs, specifically CAO 95.55, it states*:

 

An aeroplane may be flown inside Class A, B, C and D airspace only if all of the following conditions are complied with:

 

 

 

(d) the aeroplane is flown by the holder of a valid pilot licence (not being a

 

 

 

student pilot licence):

 

 

 

 

 



(i) issued under Part 5 of the Regulations; and

 

 

 

 

 



(ii) that allows the holder to fly inside the controlled airspace;

 

 

 

 

 

 

Part 5 of the regulations is the bit that deals with flight crew licensing (PPL, CPL, etc.). So this CAO is essentially saying that you have to have a PPL or higher with CTA privileges to fly in a control zone. Assuming you don't have a PPL on what grounds can your instructor approve you to go flying? Is there some sort of special exemption granted at your airport/school for this?

 

 

 

This is one of the reasons I am all for the CTA endorsement for RA-Aus. It will stop issues like this arising when there seems to be no good reason for them in the first place.

 

 

 

* For brevity I have only listed this one requirement, there are others but they don't make any difference here.

 

 

 

[Guest airsick]

The sooner we lose the us and them situation the better.:thumb_up:

Couldn't agree more. :thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

This is interesting. Reading through the CASA regs, specifically CAO 95.55, it states*:

 

An aeroplane may be flown inside Class A, B, C and D airspace only if all of the following conditions are complied with:

 

 

 

(d) the aeroplane is flown by the holder of a valid pilot licence (not being a

 

 

 

student pilot licence):

 

 

 

 

 



(i) issued under Part 5 of the Regulations; and

 

 

 

 

 



(ii) that allows the holder to fly inside the controlled airspace;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Part 5 of the regulations is the bit that deals with flight crew licensing (PPL, CPL, etc.). So this CAO is essentially saying that you have to have a PPL or higher with CTA privileges to fly in a control zone. Assuming you don't have a PPL on what grounds can your instructor approve you to go flying? Is there some sort of special exemption granted at your airport/school for this?

 

 

 

This is one of the reasons I am all for the CTA endorsement for RA-Aus. It will stop issues like this arising when there seems to be no good reason for them in the first place.

 

 

 

* For brevity I have only listed this one requirement, there are others but they don't make any difference here.

 

And as I understand it this is the specific reason that the CTA endorsement can't yet be implemented. The CTA endorsement is impeded by this provision it does not override the provision.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Guest airsick]

And as I understand it this is the specific reason that the CTA endorsement can't yet be implemented. The CTA endorsement is impeded by this provision it does not override the provision.

This is my understanding too but it doesn't answer my question. How does this particular school get around it? Have they got some sort of special dispensation? Does this dispensation extend to visiting RA-Aus pilot certificate holders or just students of the school? So many questions...

 

 

[hakjac]

airsick and others. I am this very moment trying to find out if our school has special dispensation

 

Soon as the CFI lands and I can get him on the phone I will make a post.

 

Henry

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Thanks Henry. I am interested in this because I have often thought about something happening at the Canberra airport (maybe through the local club or something similar) but CTA stuff is a huge constraint.

 

 

[Matt]

Hi Airsick, the RA-Aus schools which currently have a waiver are at Cambridge (Hobart) and Parafield (SA) I believe. The waiver is for the approved schools only (related to aircraft registration and registered operator), not for any RA-Aus pilot intending to fly in or out of there in their own aircraft. I understand a number of other schools have applied one at Camden from memory, and possibly Jandakot???

 

 

[hakjac]

Hi airsick. It took a while but apparently as Matt said our school at Cambridge does have special dispensation. It was the first in Aus I understand.

 

All I need now is to get the CTA endorsement on my certificate. This will be explained in the new Opps Manual comming out soon.:)

 

I still wish I could go for a fly now without asking:confused:

 

Henry

 

 

[Guest J430]

hakjac

 

I understand your plight, however being CTA endorsed is a lot more than just exiting a tiny corner of a zone and back again with a dispensation.

 

YOU are not inferior or second rate or whatever you might otherwise think. You are just not licensed accordingly for CTA.

 

I have been riding motorbikes since I was 15 or so, however 25 years later I have done a training course and licensed to ride any motorcycle I like ON THE ROAD. Just because I could drive a car on the road, ride a bike on a farm road/paddock, have a license for forklifts, CAMS racing car lic, a PPL and RAA Lic does not mean I automatically have the right to a motorcycle or even a rigid truck license.

 

Do not feel so victimised.

 

Enjoy your flying!:thumb_up:

 

J:wave:

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yep, we have one in at camden now, still pending.. Basically the rules are not basic..hehe.. We will be alowed to send students solo in the control zone providing they have a radio operators endorsement..But the instructor needs to have a ppl still to instruct in the cta.. So its test time again for me..dammit...

 

On the subject of raa verse ga training standards..I realise this probably a huge can of worms but at least for once it wasn't opened by me.. I can only speak for our school, and having almost completed the instructor rating (RAA) and having to use the ga syllabus as my framework, the chieff wants the difference between myself and the ga instructors to be simply one of paperwork..

 

We train alot of guys for the airlines and some use the ultral;ight reg jabiru to get the basics down...so all my instruction has to be aimed towards that goal..For instance for the taxi checks i have to teach , turning right compass right, directional indicator right, turn co-odinator right, ball left adf needle tracking station and the artificial horizen stays straight and level.." evn though the jabiru doesn't have some of those instruments.. Sure there may be things missing in the normal RAA testing but that doesn't mean it has to be missing from the training.. I would recomend any RAA pilot to at least get hold of the ppl vfr study guide and get up to speed on that..

 

cheers

 

 

[ahlocks]

...Sure there may be things missing in the normal RAA testing but that doesn't mean it has to be missing from the training.. I would recomend any RAA pilot to at least get hold of the ppl vfr study guide and get up to speed on that..cheers

Moz,

 

Love your work. You hit it right on the head without an "us and them" inference :thumb_up:

 

Here's the links:

 

http://www.casa.gov.au/pilots/guides.htm

 

http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/vfrday.htm

 

I reckon you're going to make an excellent instructor!

 

Cheers,

 

Steven B.

 

 

[Guest aircraft1]

Hang on, flying out of Cambridge is not like a GAAP or other major airport !

 

With 6 jets a day and the odd helicopter its hardly a challenge.

 

Picture this "G'day Cambridge, Thruster 1234 with inbound details; Are you awake?"

 

Expect no reply between 10.17 am and 3.55 pm because that's ATC lunch break in Tasmania !

 

Bad sense of humour i know, but i am JUST JOKING!

 

Are you awake tower ?

 

What do you mean i am number 4 ?

 

Where did the other 3 planes in Tasmania come from ?

 

 

[Guest J430]

aircraft1

 

Why is it when I go to TAS I have to read back two clearances each time????

 

ok............

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Ahlocks, thanx for the kind words mate, much appreciated..:thumb_up:

 

 

[Air Creation]

Henry..Well said! Your comments are commendable and congratulations on gaining your flying skills. Go the CTA flying for all safe pilots....GA & sports pilots. CASA are the ones that are holding us all to restricted flying. Smooth flights. :yin_yan:

 

Chris