Electric Rag and Tube

[octave]

11 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

No one will install a standalone system.. ( l don,t fancy a Smart meter, they seem to put your bills much higher ).

If you have solar and you want to sell back to the grid you need a bi directional meter.       

[spacesailor]

Yes

BUT

I only want to lower My power bill .

BUT

IF l get money from anywhere the government Can, Will deduct it from my pension .

spacesailor

 

[octave]

4 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

IF l get money from anywhere the government Can, Will deduct it from my pension .

 

I dont get money paid to me from my power company.  I save money in 2 ways, one way is that my excess generation is sold back to the grid (only 10 cents a Kwh) this is not cash but the amount is subtracted from my bill.  The other more important way is that whilst I am producing power from my panels I am directly using power that I don't have to pay for.  During the day my house is powered by the solar panels and then any excess is sold back to the grid but it is more economical if I use it directly.

Spacey I am definitely not trying to convince you or anyone else to install solar but there are some myths out there that I think should be corrected.

 

I am thread drifting here so............ oooh I know, I could use my rooftop solar to power and electric rag and tube aircraft.

[spacesailor]

octave

If l converted my Hummel bird to electric! .

It would never lift those batteries.

Unless you delated the massive weight of the pilot !. LoL   ( RC and VR glasses ( it,s smaller than the biggest RC planes ) )

 

[pmccarthy]

Mark Twain wrote a story about climbing Mont Blanc by telescope. He wrote it like he was in the climbing party, but he was on the balcony of his hotel. Sounds like Spacey's aeroplane and VR glasses! A good idea.

[turboplanner]

17 hours ago, octave said:

 

 I am directly using power that I don't have to pay for. 

That's misleading; I'm surprised you would say that.

In any cost model, the Prime Cost must be included, which is the thousands of dollars paid for the equipment, and the installation, less any government subsidy. For many people, who have to pay contractors or get sucked into the "No Cost Solar "deals" they will be into the maintenance and replacement phase before there is any return, then the costs start again.

[planedriver]

On 18/04/2021 at 4:23 PM, jackc said:

Simplicity cannot be a word used in any description of cars,  that went out the door years ago.   EVERY car today has whizbang b/s features that are not needed to carry our backsides from one place to another.

IF you built a basic EV, without all the fancy stuff in it, it’s range could be 30% better.  Same for a basic aircraft, the Aerolite offers a basic platform that would be fun to fly.  I would bet IF you put them up to RAAus, they would probably can it 😞. 

Like so many things in life, I believe that generally, simplicity, is the essence of reliability.

[octave]

4 hours ago, turboplanner said:

That's misleading; I'm surprised you would say that.

In the context of Spacesailers query my statement is quite accurate.  We were discussing the the methods of utilizing the power produced.  Let me clarify my statement,  I am using power that I do not have to pay THE POWER RETAILER for.   

 

4 hours ago, turboplanner said:

For many people, who have to pay contractors or get sucked into the "No Cost Solar "deals" they will be into the maintenance and replacement phase before there is any return, then the costs start again.

 

This probably is not the place to go into detail but I am more than more than happy to go in to the economics of it taking all of those factors into and the modeling we did before installing it including capital costs and eventual replacement. 

 

 

 

[Geoff_H]

40 minutes ago, octave said:

In the context of Spacesailers query my statement is quite accurate.  We were discussing the the methods of utilizing the power produced.  Let me clarify my statement,  I am using power that I do not have to pay THE POWER RETAILER for.   

 

 

This probably is not the place to go into detail but I am more than more than happy to go in to the economics of it taking all of those factors into and the modeling we did before installing it including capital costs and eventual replacement. 

 

 

 

Please do.  I spent 2 years consulting to a very large mining company and we could not find any economic renewable energy system that was economic. Even though we had large sources of low grade heat.  I think they government subsidies can make it economic for households.  A consultant friend did many wind studies for mining companies using tall masts and data logging.  He told me that wind cost 4 times that of conventional power systems.

[octave]

3 minutes ago, Geoff_H said:

Please do.  I spent 2 years consulting to a very large mining company and we could not find any economic renewable energy system that was economic.

The current  mining mining industry seems to think the economics make sense.

 

Rio Tinto battery to be biggest of its type in world, and shine path to 100 pct renewables

 

https://www.australianmining.com.au/product/off-the-grid-solar-solutions/

 

As for my own system I am happy to share the modeling we did and compare it to the actual performance.   We did want to include a battery but it did not at this time stand up to economic scrutiny, but I expect it will as the price continues to drop.    

 

 

[spacesailor]

I Have, 

No cost solar power ,.

BUT

It,s only a hobby setup with discarded batteries & secondhand panels,  with a converted PC back up power supply,  converted to an inverter, that gives my 240 volts when l need it.

Over the road they have a new roof panel instalation,  with their old panels & inverter out on the lawn.

Should l go & ask for my New freebies ?. LoL

spacesailor 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by spacesailor
Spelling

[Geoff_H]

Your panels were free?

[Geoff_H]

The mining companies do not see direct financial returns.  The dig our earth and make a lot of money.  They see not being green will upset the community, starting to happen. So they don't annoy the Greenies and loose their licence to dig they are going renewable...was like that when I was working doing this work.  They spent a fortune to placate the community.

When a large mine is making over $2M an hour profit paying $400 Million to seem to go renewable is peanuts.

[octave]

1 minute ago, Geoff_H said:

Your panels were free?

Why would you even ask that?  Are you suggesting that people and businesses who install solar make such a basic as failing to consider the yearly savings  against the capitol cost?   As I said we wanted to get a battery but the payback time did not stack up.  Of course we took the capital cost across the projected life of the various components

[Geoff_H]

What kW output do you get from your solar cells in a day?  A 300W panel where I am will put out 150kw.  Not something mentioned by PV panel salesmen.

[Geoff_H]

That should have read 150W not 150kw

[Geoff_H]

Some light relief. Just did some calks on how are you can go using the energy from a 100 kilowatt hour battery as found in a Tesla s model.

Tesla s will take you 567 km according to Tesla website

Based on BMW 330 I doing 5.5 l per 100km on a trip it will get 161 km

 A Mooney M20J, weight increased or decreased not even considered, would would travel 160 km at 8000 feet.

 

[octave]

What kW output do you get from your solar cells in a day?  A 300W panel where I am will put out 150kw.  Not something mentioned by PV panel salesmen.

 

No not relying on a salesman's opinion although it is interesting to note that the modelling the company used was incorrect in that it claimed that peek daily output in mid January was predicted

 to be 21.1 KWh in fact as you can see it was 33.6KWh.

 

 

 

This is an actual metering of my system.  This comes information comes direct from my inverter.    I can confirm the accuracy by comparing with the app from my power company.  You can see from the orange stripe, which is are usage, that that we only use power hungry appliances during the day, for example dishwasher, clothes washer, most importantly hot water heater.  

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by octave

[Geoff_H]

I have time of use metering. I have significantly cut my electricity bill by scheduling things like the pool in the middle of the night all washing and drying eccetera is done before 14 in the afternoon my underfloor ventilation system only works at the cheap time.  Another problem I have is that my roofs face East West so panels would stick up at a funny angle who the roof. Just about every calculation I have done as shown that the return on the investment is not that great I would love to disconnect totally from the grid but the cost of batteries was astronomical. I did a lot of work with organic Rankine cycle generators that just use panels getting heat like hot water heat off your roof. It would use hot water tanks for heat storage. The efficiency was so low that I would need some 80 panels in the backyard to give me freedom from the grid. Still looking. I just replaced my roof the old one leaked too much. The replacement roof cost me $20,000 I investigated getting Tesla like PV tiles in my roof. Quote came back at $70,000 with 5 kw of panels, not quite sure if the 5k was actual or nominal but either way its not economic.

[octave]

A crucial piece of information missing from my above post is the size of the system.   We have 14 X 320W Panels

[Geoff_H]

7 minutes ago, octave said:

A crucial piece of information missing from my above post is the size of the system.   We have 14 X 320W Panels

What put are you getting in winter?

[octave]

19 minutes ago, octave said:

A crucial piece of information missing from my above post is the size of the system.   We have 14 X 320W Panels

 

I am just heading out (on my Ebike) so I will post a worst day graph but I can say that the modelling predicts 8MWh

[FlyBoy1960]

On 14/07/2021 at 9:51 AM, spacesailor said:

Yes

BUT

I only want to lower My power bill .

BUT

IF l get money from anywhere the government Can, Will deduct it from my pension .

spacesailor

 

You really are a glass half empty person Spacey !    😇

[onetrack]

Renewable energy is going gangbusters in the mining industry in W.A. Up to recently, these setups were subsidised, but the latest one at Fraser Range, East of Norseman is viable without subsidies.

Batteries are still too expensive to be viable, particularly seeing as their storage ability is limited to a relatively short period.

Diesel or NG or coal-powered electricity is still needed for primary power, but renewables provide a way to reduce costs and reduce 100% reliance on distant, fossil-fuel, major power stations.

A major part of the move to renewables is developing energy input control programmes that provide better integration of the various energy sources.

 

https://www.miningpeople.com.au/news/how-the-mining-industry-is-using-solar-power

 

https://www.pv-magazine-australia.com/2019/12/18/unique-hybrid-solar-pv-installation-now-powering-wa-mine/

[danny_galaga]

3 hours ago, Geoff_H said:

Please do.  I spent 2 years consulting to a very large mining company and we could not find any economic renewable energy system that was economic. Even though we had large sources of low grade heat.  I think they government subsidies can make it economic for households.  A consultant friend did many wind studies for mining companies using tall masts and data logging.  He told me that wind cost 4 times that of conventional power systems.

How big were the turbines? The big ones pay for themselves within 6 months to two years or so. That sounds pretty cost effective to me...