Orbost to Burnie

[RFguy]

Looking at how to meet the 25nm limit to Burnie.  Mind you, by the time i do this I'll likely have my RPL/CPL.

Does this sort of route pass muster ? comments please.   deviations of course matter little  on this one.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by RFguy

[turboplanner]

38 minutes ago, RFguy said:

Looking at how to meet the 25nm limit to Burnie.  Mind you, by the time i do this I'll likely have my RPL/CPL.

Does this sort of route pass muster ? comments please.   deviations of course matter little  on this one.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure what's being dreamed up here, but if it's a series of 25 NM hops by a student, the 25 Nm is from your home airport where you are being taught. The home airport if PPL teaching is taking place will also have a "Training Area" with boundaries you must stay within.

In both cases you get out of that home base by getting your certificate/licence AND after your Cross Country/Navigation theory and practical exams have been passed.  Even at that heady stage I wouldn't be thinking of Island hopping to Tasmania where even the coast fishermen carry BOATS on board.

 

If however, this is a fully qualified and endorsed pilot with, for example a bladder liit of 25 Nm, there could be closer ALAS on the mainland or northern Tasmania.

[Thruster88]

4 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

I'm not sure what's being dreamed up here, but if it's a series of 25 NM hops by a student, the 25 Nm is from your home airport where you are being taught. The home airport if PPL teaching is taking place will also have a "Training Area" with boundaries you must stay within.

In both cases you get out of that home base by getting your certificate/licence AND after your Cross Country/Navigation theory and practical exams have been passed.  Even at that heady stage I wouldn't be thinking of Island hopping to Tasmania where even the coast fishermen carry BOATS on board.

 

If however, this is a fully qualified and endorsed pilot with, for example a bladder liit of 25 Nm, there could be closer ALAS on the mainland or northern Tasmania.

RFguy most definitely has a nav endorsement.  Just hope he doesn't want to fly to tasmania in the jab, he is a good guy and would be sadly missed😥

[RFguy]

far out I have a nav endorsement and then some. 

 

[facthunter]

Jabs have flown to New Zealand. I would have kept closer to the prom. You don't use ALA's you just use a place you can land on in an emergency That will be affected by cloud base wind and how well the plane glides. Some of the land is rough and hard to guarantee a non injury landing. I'd fly closer to a beach when one exists than off the coast where you can just make it. Google earth should enable close scrutiny. Nev

[RFguy]

Although I think I'm still in experienced with regard to judging weather, and  judging changing weather  from the airplane. 

 

to glide 25nm, I'd have to have the Jab about, in nil wind, about 13000 feet 

Rolling on floor laughing...

 

Seriously though, yeah some of those islands are best suited to penguins and seals. Fly in a 5mm wet suit is probably a good start.

 

 

 

[RFguy]

Hi Nev

Yeah, I agree with your points of staying a bit closer.

 

if it is only going to cost 30 minutes extra the whole trip (450nm)  to route so that one can  glide (wind dependent) to land, then that is certainly a 30 minutes worth taking.

 

[tillmanr]

I believe that the safest route is from Wilson’s Prom, Flinders Island to Tassie.  Maybe not able to land everywhere but ditching close to shore sounds better than ditching at sea. Not much of a diversion for you.

[RFguy]

like this ? 385nm versus 292 nm. 
we'll call this  METHOD#2

 

 

[RFguy]

METHOD #3. approx 342nm. modified for wind as required,

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by RFguy

[pmccarthy]

There are only two approved routes for light aircraft to Tasmania.

[facthunter]

Your judgment of weather in flight will improve with development of a deeper knowledge of meteorology that many never get. Source of relevent material is difficult.  How to read clouds and what that can tell you. Characteristics of cold fronts Air mass analysis. Fog formation (all causes). Daily coastal breeze effects. DEW point . Lapse rates and orographic effects to name a few . Bass straight is known for it's changeable weather. I've come back against an 80 knot wind all the way that took hours (with me paying for the plane). Those rocks that stick out of the water have a lee side sheltered from bigger waves and wind. Bass straight is shallow. Average depth 200 feet and the swells come from multiple directions giving you some freak waves  now and again. Cold fronts are the most significant weather "feature" in that part of the world.  Your GLIDE figures are about right, but no one crosses Broken Bay  (near Gosford) able to glide the distance. Most "lighties' do it at 1500 feet. Nev

[RFguy]

Hi Nev
While I've had a keen scientific interest in metroology for my whole life from radio-- predicting tropospheric ducting and temperature inversions at various heights from raw weather baloon data, but I've found interpreting what is going on visually at altitude takes some other skills.  My instructor has been helpful in this regard. Even simple things like figuring out what the cloud base and height is 'empirically' while watching what the OAT is doing, what is surprising is judgment of how far clouds are away. (how close they are) . There really isnt any depth perception / stereo image data to figure out how far something is away- ithe information just isnt there for your eyes and brain...... In the tablelands, much has to do with rising/falling ground/land heights of course which generate fixed areas of IMC. We spent summer in the hot western slopes, and autumn in the tablelands. 

 

Bass - Fortumately, one can get a couple of good days  when there is a high driving the weather, though upper air charts are worth looking at, and the GAF tells a good story, and I am day flexible as self employed.   Had a bit of a look at the ERC for that region. Will spend some time on the VNC , also. I suspect the best advice will come from frequent Bass Strait lighty pilots....

 

As for 1500 feet. 2 minutes  and / or 2 nm(best) and you are in the water.

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by RFguy

[facthunter]

A while back Bass straight was served by DC3 and DC4  freight day and night in all weathers & Piper Navahos sp?  etc Nothing flew over 10,000feet  and no single engined scheduled commercial ops I can recall..  I don't reckon it would be that responsible to do so either but planes like a Cessna Caravan operate IFR all the time. (Not sure I go for that particularly either.)

 At those levels  the biggest problem is icing. I don't think enough flights are done by anyone to get a real  adequate sample to formulate  a definitive approach.  It's only gong to be an opinion and obviously the person survived so I made it It's no deal doesn't mean a LOT.

   It's a bit like ferrying planes here from the USA. You just make as many "plusses" for you  as you can IF you're sensible and decide to go, if that's your want.  Endurance is not an issue over the straight unless a wind makes it so. The suitability of your plane and what equipment you carry and can effectively use IS important.. . There is also the motivation (i've always wanted to is a common feeling). and for some the rule only gamble IF you can afford to lose. You make your own luck etc.applies.  IF it's only YOU do what you like. I'm fairly easy about risk takers knowingly doing this and that but I've seen people who trusted someone's misguided judgement and  payed for it dearly too many times. to view it differently.. OF course flying over remote area sloping heavily timbered country is not much different in level of risk exposure either. I take precautions doing that too and I'm still HERE .  Nev

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, RFguy said:

Hi Nev
While I've had a keen scientific interest in metroology for my whole life from radio-- predicting tropospheric ducting and temperature inversions at various heights from raw weather baloon data, but I've found interpreting what is going on visually at altitude takes some other skills.  My instructor has been helpful in this regard. Even simple things like figuring out what the cloud base and height is 'empirically' while watching what the OAT is doing, what is surprising is judgment of how far clouds are away. (how close they are) . There really isnt any depth perception / stereo image data to figure out how far something is away- ithe information just isnt there for your eyes and brain...... In the tablelands, much has to do with rising/falling ground/land heights of course which generate fixed areas of IMC. We spent summer in the hot western slopes, and autumn in the tablelands. 

 

Bass - Fortumately, one can get a couple of good days  when there is a high driving the weather, though upper air charts are worth looking at, and the GAF tells a good story, and I am day flexible as self employed.   Had a bit of a look at the ERC for that region. Will spend some time on the VNC , also. I suspect the best advice will come from frequent Bass Strait lighty pilots....

 

As for 1500 feet. 2 minutes  and / or 2 nm(best) and you are in the water.

 

Also RPT going in to the north. To land at Wynyard which I suspect is what you are talking about when you mention Burnie, frequently the airlines ran the last by by sitting down over the sea BELOW the land level. If they could see a crack they'd keep going; if not they'd turn around and go back to Melbourne. I think it was an Ansett F27, the Captain was heading for the Cliffs  to skim over. The First Officer reported him afterwards and he was very publicly fired.   

[RFguy]

GAF today area 70 :

With the 1032 HIGH right over the Strait , and this is about as friendly as it gets I think this time of year :

oh boy - 

 area 70,23Z- 05Z

Then, after 05Z :

 

 

 

 

[RFguy]

if you are going to maintain positive visual fix every 30 minutes, and flying at say 100kts ground,  and cloud is SCT then you are probably going to have to fly right over the islands to be sure to be able to get a positive fix (regardless of what the GPS is saying ). This is strict VFR example. 

[facthunter]

If everybody tracks by GPS there is usually NO significant error more than a few metres. That fact has made flying more risky. More people in less space.. A positive fix is a positive fix..You use whatever you have. Maybe an old ADF  and you know the local radio frequency and where the transmitter is . Some visual fixes can be erroneous (mistaken for another place as it came up right on the ETA so must be the place) and they don't conveniently come along every 30 minutes.  Good stuff is an accurately identified High voltage Power line crossing a major road. Major roads are fine in  remote areas  There IFR means I Fly Roads. Roadhouses on the Barkly. A multiple runway aerodrome situated where it should be in relation to other things A town you have actually driven through can be far more easily identified. A coastal town, sea on the correct side with a breakwater you recognise. Nice. 

  THEN It's a day when cane is being burned off or planned burning is taking place. You've got your VFR conditions "JUST" Your planned headings verified by checking as you did earlier are all you  have really. Oh you didn't get around to that and anyhow the compass goes all over the place in turbulence so I just rely on the good old GPS. It always works when I put Go To in. That ones great if you are near a prohibited area and the proper track JUST cleared it. You are going to a place, but from where exactly?. Just a few thoughts and a bit of personal experience.. Nev

[Marty_d]

@RFguy - if you're thinking of flying over the ditch, give Peter Reed from SkyFlyte Aviation (Devonport / Wynyard) a call.

I bought my 912 off him and had a discussion about flying the Strait.  He does it quite often in a Foxbat and could advise you about special equipment, best time to fly, route etc.

Here's his website which includes contact details: https://flyingintasmania.com/about/

 

[RFguy]

Thanks Marty !
even with a big high system overhead, another day of low level BKN SC

doesn't really change all day. The $64 question is , if one flys above it, does it extend over land, so you'd really want to  get under it before getting near the land.  

 

wind over flinders at 5000 270T/10. to the west with the front approaching, 
to the west over King, 330T/18 ish

Edited May 30, 2021 by RFguy

[RFguy]

Today,  not so friendly.

Bass Strait in the north, not too friendly.

further south, quite unfriendly.

freezing level is low. maybe stay in the airport pub.

Northern

SOuthern

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by RFguy

[facthunter]

Big lick of cold air from way south going to be around till Friday including snow for Queensland forecast.. Nev

[Ando]

The Synoptics will give the picture with the GAF

 

[RFguy]

GAF today for Tasmania is 31 lines long . ! ROFL. So different from our long days of NCD in NSW.

 

But, I guess , in Tasmania , if you did not like windy and cloudy weather , you probably wouldn't fly very much...

 

[facthunter]

Not called the "Roaring " forties for nothing. Nev