Unleaded fuel at airfields

[JG3]

Just now, JG3 said:

Just post the changes needed here and I will update the map. 

Also you can post any new info on OZRunways ‘Public Notes’

[JG3]

3 hours ago, RossK said:

Mogas is also available through Wimmera Aero Club at Horsham, need to ring in advance though.

 

 

 It's now on the map. Phone number??

[RossK]

45 minutes ago, JG3 said:

 It's now on the map. Phone number??

I organised it with Hugh Brownlee

Wimmera Aero Club

[APenNameAndThatA]

On 07/06/2021 at 9:42 PM, F10 said:

Would be great to have Mogas at more airports or rather, small airfields with RA aircraft operations. Rotax discourage Avgas usage, because of led affecting the gearbox, and leaving led sludge in the oil. I hevesen on occasion led globules closing up plug gaps causing a misfire on Lycomings/Continentals (can clear sometimes by running at high power), but never heard of any other problems like oil sludge with regular aero engines? Another question, topping up your tanks (Mogas) with Avgas, to make it home, I guess that should not be a big issue?

You are allowed to mix mogas and av gas. I can’t remember the names of the things you add to remove the lead from fuel, but Rotax say they have not tested them but they don’t seem to cause problems. 

[walrus]

Ape name - it’s “Decalin Runup” that is the additive 

[onetrack]

Be very aware, that if you use Decalin Runup, its primary constituent is a compound called Tri Cresyl Phosphate. TCP is an organophosphate, and as such is extremely toxic, both to humans and animals. Simply put, it's a nerve poison.

 

Read the MSDS on Decalin Runup and TCP and treat the stuff with all due respect, for the highly poisonous chemical it is. Don't spill it on your skin, and don't inhale any fumes from it.

[JG3]

On 08/06/2021 at 8:10 PM, F10 said:

Yes I know it was easier to organise the Normandy Landings, then get an airfield fuel installation approved and installed. Which is the world we live in today sadly. We’ve just had one installed in Yarram, with a large chopper pad right next to it, but I’m not convinced the fuel hose will reach a helicopter like an A139, parked at centre pad.....I just find it a pity it can’t be used by the majority of aircraft hangared at the field. But, it’s still good to have at the end of the day. 

Are you saying that isn't available to visiting aircraft?? It sure would be good to have that facility to top up before heading across to Tassie....

[JG3]

Just now, JG3 said:

Are you saying that isn't available to visiting aircraft?? It sure would be good to have that facility to top up before heading across to Tassie....

Is that mogas PULP at Yarram or avgas??

[JG3]

I've now updated that map with the new suggestions and highlighted the airfields with PULP on field by orange markers to make it easier to find them.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1HDxCTbbdJ7DiSSakAVEBsIzGCrg&ll=-27.40189582364664%2C133.53847499999998&z=4

Check to see if I've missed anything.

 

Sure would be good to make this map easier to access.

OZRunways did ask for a copy and I sent it to them but don't see it used...

That would be the best site for a link to be displayed for easy access when you would most need it.

 

[JG3]

Leongatha no longer supplies mogas on field.

[rgmwa]

JG3: Dunmarra Roadhouse south of Daly Waters in the NT has a strip behind the roadhouse with bowsers, food and accommodation (camping and motel units). 

The owner flies a Murphy Rebel, at least did when I was there in 2018. 

 

Also Sandfire Roadhouse on the 90 mile beach in WA. Strip is behind the roadhouse. it's a fair walk with jerrycans, but you can taxy up near to the bowsers along a track if you ask the staff.

I got bogged on the way back.  

Edited June 10, 2021 by rgmwa

[RossK]

JG, is there anyway you can combine the old fuel map with this one, then all the fuel stops and pubs are in one place 😉

[JG3]

58 minutes ago, rgmwa said:

JG3: Dunmarra Roadhouse south of Daly Waters in the NT has a strip behind the roadhouse with bowsers, food and accommodation (camping and motel units). 

The owner flies a Murphy Rebel, at least did when I was there in 2018. 

 

Also Sandfire Roadhouse on the 90 mile beach in WA. Strip is behind the roadhouse. it's a fair walk with jerrycans, but you can taxy up near to the bowsers along a track if you ask the staff.

I got bogged on the way back.  

Don't know how I mussed Dunmarra, I've fueled there a couple of times. On the map now.

 

Sandfire also now on the map.

[JG3]

1 hour ago, RossK said:

JG, is there anyway you can combine the old fuel map with this one, then all the fuel stops and pubs are in one place 😉

I've had a look thro the old map and most is already duplicated and updated on the new one. I'll go right thro the old map and add any info that's not already on the new one.

 

I'll also mark airfields with a different colour where fuel is an easy? carry of a jerrycan.

Edited June 10, 2021 by JG3
Addition info

[JG3]

2 hours ago, RossK said:

JG, is there anyway you can combine the old fuel map with this one, then all the fuel stops and pubs are in one place 😉

Have a look at the new map now. Much more useful this way I think.....

[F10]

On 10/06/2021 at 10:29 AM, JG3 said:

Is that mogas PULP at Yarram or avgas??

Avgas and AVTUR. No Mogas unfortunately.

[kiwiaviator]

Slight drift off topic question. Does anyone know where I can get location information for AVGAS bowsers on airfields. I dislike taxiing around at an unfamiliar airfield looking for bowsers. All of the FAC and apron charts I look at, have black squares all over it, however no 'X marks the bowser'

[turboplanner]

47 minutes ago, kiwiaviator said:

Slight drift off topic question. Does anyone know where I can get location information for AVGAS bowsers on airfields. I dislike taxiing around at an unfamiliar airfield looking for bowsers. All of the FAC and apron charts I look at, have black squares all over it, however no 'X marks the bowser'

I haven't done this but try google earth; resolution may be good enough.

[F10]

I thought unleaded 100 Octane AVGAS was imminent? Seems not. It’s th one pain about a Rotax, they don’t seem to like it. Deposited of lead on the gearbox slipper clutch and I’ve seen a UTube clip about an oil change and the guy decided to clean out his oil tank. There was a lot of lead deposit sludge at the bottom of the tank. During the war, the Germans made up for their poor fuels running on as low as 87 octane as I recall, by adding to piston size. The Fw190 BMW radial, was over 40 litres in capacity. Could Lycoming/Continental drop compression and do the same? No doubt a weight and cost problem! But it would be nice to fill up on AVGAS with no worries.

[facthunter]

I can't follow your logic in that post F10.. Lycoming and Continental run on 100LL with little problem. THEY don't run high comp ratios  so don't need the older higher lead fuels. like 120/145 which is for BIG supercharged motors and is unavailable now. Some versions of the smaller Lyc and Continentals have been "approved" to operate on pump fuel.( Mogas.)

  .. Rotax don't recommend using "only" avgas at all but you can use it now and again if there's nothing else with the main risk being occasional loss of "some" valve seating effectiveness which usually recovers when back on Mogas. The Rotax runs too cool for the TEL to do  the seat benefit  function it does on the aircooled motors.  The "right" oil and reduced hours for changing should look after a Rotax. Nev

[F10]

I understood aero engines tend to be high compression, because apart from valve seat lube, lead reduces detonation. It seems strange why there is so much resistance to unleaded AVGAS. I thought because the bigger turbo and supercharged twin aircraft engines would detonate with unleaded, therefore they are driving its continued use. Anyhow, this is a pretty technical argument as I saw in one article on this subject in “Kitplanes”. All I’m saying is as a ROTAX operator, I would enjoy easy access to unleaded AVGAS.

[Thruster88]

54 minutes ago, F10 said:

I thought unleaded 100 Octane AVGAS was imminent? Seems not. It’s th one pain about a Rotax, they don’t seem to like it. Deposited of lead on the gearbox slipper clutch and I’ve seen a UTube clip about an oil change and the guy decided to clean out his oil tank. There was a lot of lead deposit sludge at the bottom of the tank. During the war, the Germans made up for their poor fuels running on as low as 87 octane as I recall, by adding to piston size. The Fw190 BMW radial, was over 40 litres in capacity. Could Lycoming/Continental drop compression and do the same? No doubt a weight and cost problem! But it would be nice to fill up on AVGAS with no worries.

Lycoming engines basically come in low 7:1 and high 8.5:1 compression ratios. This gives 150 or 160 hp in the little 0-320 respectively. The 7:1 engine was certified for 80/87 avgas and the 8.5:1 for 91/96. Both engines have been run successfully on mogas. Unleaded avgas 91/96 has been produced in Europe for some time now. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas

[facthunter]

Compared to what we expect in modern engines 8.5 is not a high compression ratio but detonation quickly kills any aero motor if it occurs. When you  super charge a motor the EFFECTIVE compression ratio increases markedly. Nev

[Ian]

Attached is a list of Lycoming engines approved to run Mogas. Given the current state of affairs I suspect that Mogas is the fuel of the future as it

1. Suits most engines in common use
2. Is easy to test for ethanol contamination. (Just use food dye)
3. Has a higher energy content than AVGAS
4. Is not a neurotoxin

For engines which can't use Mogas due to octane requirements I can see STCs for MW-50 in your future.

For engine at risk of vapour lock, positive pressure fuel pumps similar to the automotive ones are also in your future.

SI1070AB_Specified_Fuels.pdf

[F10]

Just to clarify on supercharger, yes they can increase boost or manifold pressure. That’s why a 7 litre V8 will put out 1000Hp+ down a drag strip. Also typical Merlin 60/70 series max boost was around 60” MAP, but at Reno air races, will crank them up to around 103” if not higher. Poor old war horse engines, it’s a tough retirement! Makes me wince! I think typical supercharger function in aircraft is to allow for maintaining manifold pressures up to higher altitudes. For example, with a P&W AN1430 radial, the fixed gear supercharger, would not allow you to go to full throttle at sea level, you would be way over boosting the engine. As you climbed, you advanced the throttle to maintain 30” MAP, until you reached full throttle height, than because it was a single speed supercharger, above full throttle height, MAP will reduce. A two speed supercharger would gear up, to maintain MAP to a greater height. So not so much boost increase, but maintaining engine max power at higher altitudes. Turbo chargers do the same thing, but because they are not driven by the engine directly but by exhaust gasses, they have a waste gate to prevent overboost.