Ultralight Helicopter

[Geoff_H]

In Australia can we have an ultralight Helicopter?

[skippydiesel]

Dont  know the rules on this but there is a young man just a few k's from me who has constructed a single seat turbine powered chopper - fly's great! woeful range

[Kyle Communications]

I dont believe you can in RAAA

 

[facthunter]

With  very light blades auto rotaton becomes close to impossible. A gyro maybe is more feasible. I doubt it's RAAus  compatible, but that's a guess.   Nev

Edited June 12, 2021 by facthunter

[red750]

Here's a link that may help. Located Koo Wee Rup, Victoria. Contact number included.

 

http://mosquitohelicopters.com.au/

 

 

[facthunter]

Very cute. Nev

[Old Koreelah]

I saw a neat fibreglass prototype single seater in the Jab factory at least a decade ago.

[onetrack]

As I understand it, amateur-built helicopters can be registered as RA machines. But you need to train for and acquire a PPL (H) licence, and this can only be done in a 2-seater (meaning a Robinson).

 

https://www.australianhelicopterpilotschool.com.au/licence-types/

 

https://www.casa.gov.au/aircraft/sport-aviation/amateur-built-and-experimental-aircraft

 

 

I find it interesting that Mosquito Helicopters has such a substantial website, all dedicated to the greatness, ease of build, and fun associated with the Mosquito helicopter - but they have absolutely nothing - like, zero or zilch - on their website, as regards their helicopter registration, training, and qualifications requirements. Quite a deficient and misleading website, IMO.

 

In a real quirk of fate, the designer of the Mosquito helicopter, John Uptigrove (a Canadian) was killed whilst flying one of his machines in July 2018. There was no fault with the helicopter, the pilot flew into a powerline at 75' AGL.

 

https://www.thestar.com/calgary/2018/10/03/investigation-reveals-cause-of-fatal-alberta-helicopter-crash.html

 

https://verticalmag.com/news/mosquito-xe285-co-designer-identified-as-crash-victim/

 

Innovator Technologies is the company now producing Mosquito helicopters. There is just one Mosquito helicopter on CASA's rego records, it is VH-XER.

 

https://www.regosearch.com/aircraft/au/XER

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by onetrack

[Thruster88]

When it comes to registration and licensing requirements every country would be different. In Australia they would be registered VH experimental so a PPL(H) would be required.  

[onetrack]

This 76 yr old experienced fixed-wing pilot killed himself in his Mosquito XE285 whilst trying to learn how to fly it. The telling part of the report says "The pilot had not received a solo endorsement to operate helicopters."

 

The report also says, "the pilot had two hard landings in the accident helicopter, prior to the (fatal) accident". 

 

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/02/innovator-mosquito-xe285-n840gs-fatal.html

[Geoff_H]

32 minutes ago, onetrack said:

But you need to train for and acquire a PPL (H) licence, and this can only be done in a 2-seater (meaning a Robinson).

Does this mean that I can use my PPL with some Cessna 152 experience to fly a recreational aircraft?

[facthunter]

Virtually everything with VH crosses over to RAAus. The other way around you get some credit. .Nev

[onetrack]

There's further Mosquito crash reports in the link below. It appears many fixed-wing pilots think the Mosquito is a piece of cake to fly - but not so. They are very "touchy" machines when it comes to easily losing control.

 

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2014/09/fatal-accident-occurred-september-22.html

[red750]

 From the Redback Aviation website...

 

QUESTION: Do I have to have a license to fly the Mosquito?

ANSWER: The Mosquito is designed to be a US regulation ultralight and so no license is required to fly the Mosquito in the United States. Proper training however is absolutely essential prior to flying any aircraft. A pilot should have a student pilots license as a minimum. Other countries have different regulations for light helicopters. Consult your local aviation authorities.

[Geoff_H]

 So what do I need to do to fly a recreational aircraft?  I have a ppl.

[JMLIS]

You will need to do a 5 hour conversion, however RAA do have several different categories, each of which may or may not come directly over with your current experience.

For example, Nose Wheel, Tail Wheel, Low inertia, Two Stroke engine, Retractable undercarriage,  Variable propeller, cross country, controlled airspace. I did mine twelve years ago in a drifter which added the Two Stroke and low inertia. Involved about 50 minutes dual, including test flight, and a lot of time filling at about 55 knots!

[skippydiesel]

31 minutes ago, Geoff_H said:

 So what do I need to do to fly a recreational aircraft?  I have a ppl.

About 5 hrs in a RAA factory build (can be used for instruction) to get your conversion to RAA Certificate - all your GA endorsements transfer automatically.

[JMLIS]

Having done over 800 hours in light helicopters with a ppl, only 7 or so in a home-built, I would consider teaching yourself to fly a helicopter far more dangerous than playing seven games of Russian roulette in a row!

[kasper]

How about the simple answer to the direct question.

 

In Australia there are only two organisations the register and allow authorised ultralight aircraft operations. RAAus and SAFA. 

SAFA only do powered trike aircraft.  All other ultralights come under RAAus. 

 

Q. Can any helicopter be registered with RAAus and flown on an RAAus pilot certificate?

A. No.

 

Answers the original post nicely. 

 

All helicopters come under direct CASA control for registration and operations so you will need a ppl for helicopter and reg vh-fron CASA on the side. 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by kasper

[Flying Binghi]

6 hours ago, onetrack said:

This 76 yr old experienced fixed-wing pilot killed himself in his Mosquito XE285 whilst trying to learn how to fly it. The telling part of the report says "The pilot had not received a solo endorsement to operate helicopters."

 

The report also says, "the pilot had two hard landings in the accident helicopter, prior to the (fatal) accident". 

 

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/02/innovator-mosquito-xe285-n840gs-fatal.html

Yep, Frank Robinson reckoned the most dangerous helicopter pilot is a fixed wing pilot.

 

 

 

 

.

[Thruster88]

9 hours ago, Flying Binghi said:

Yep, Frank Robinson reckoned the most dangerous helicopter pilot is a fixed wing pilot.

 

 

 

 

.

I thought it was a ringer from the top end.

[Geoff_H]

Out of sheer curiosity what is it that makes a fixed wing pilot a bad angry palm tree pilot?

[facthunter]

Throw away lines mostly.  "Crazy" palm tree in my day. BTW. It's a bit like Jet jockeys can't fly ultralights. Good and appropriate instruction applies anywhere there's a change. What might have applied to the last one may not be correct for the next one.. I wouldn't think any "thinking" person would think a helicopter is a piece of cake to master.   Nev

[onetrack]

Unfortunately Nev, the Mosquito crash stats show that an excessive percentage of Mosquito pilots that crashed, appear to have a surplus of confidence in their abilities to fly one, over a deficit in their skills and training level.

The intelligent "thinking" person, is all too often, intent on "raising the bar" and "testing themselves", so they can reach new heights in skills and experience.

And they often suffer from a degree of arrogance that means they decline to be taught new flying skills that they decide are "basic".

Arrogance towards being taught specific skills, by someone you regard as junior to you, can get you killed when it comes to flying. The Mosquito helicopters crash record is not good, but it appears it's rarely the fault of the machine.

[Flying Binghi]

1 hour ago, Geoff_H said:

Out of sheer curiosity what is it that makes a fixed wing pilot a bad angry palm tree pilot?

How you react before you think. The immediate ‘muscle memory’ response.

 

For a good overview: 

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/11786/what-are-the-drawbacks-of-being-a-helicopter-and-fixed-wing-pilot-at-the-same-ti

 

 

 

 

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Edited June 13, 2021 by Flying Binghi