Selling a partially built kit

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, Geoff_H said:

I await your advice on availability, let me know.  I will suspend my research.

Cheers PS I still have not found a property to store my current project

Geoff - it is still available but being honest (&  not seeing a likely candidate just at the moment) I am telling you it may not be for long.

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, Geoff_H said:

I await your advice on availability, let me know.  I will suspend my research.

Cheers PS I still have not found a property to store my current project

Geoff - it is still available but being honest (&  not seeing a likely candidate just at the moment) I am telling you it may not be for long.

[Geoff_H]

I found another partly finished project for sale.  It is the right weight and landing speed but has retractable undercarriage.  I thought that this was not allowed in Recreational aircraft.  Am I right?

[Blueadventures]

1 hour ago, Geoff_H said:

I found another partly finished project for sale.  It is the right weight and landing speed but has retractable undercarriage.  I thought that this was not allowed in Recreational aircraft.  Am I right?

Yes, Retract is an endorsement with RAA, aircraft include Tecnam retract, SeaRey etc

[Geoff_H]

How is stall speed of a modified RAA project determined?  Using manufacturers data and calculations of weight effect on stall speed or by observing on landing?

Looking at a project that can be expected to have a weight increase based on modification.  But not sure it will have stall speed above RAA max

[skippydiesel]

36 minutes ago, Geoff_H said:

How is stall speed of a modified RAA project determined?  Using manufacturers data and calculations of weight effect on stall speed or by observing on landing?

Looking at a project that can be expected to have a weight increase based on modification.  But not sure it will have stall speed above RAA max

Stall speed is usually determined by the (kit) manufacturer.

 

In the case of a VH- RAA transfer,a heavily modified kit, an original/one off/home design testing may be required at max manufactures weight or RAA max (600 KG) weights.

 

I know of at least 2 RAA registerde aircraft that are unlikely to meet the 45 knot stall - so I guess its a negotiable figure.

[skippydiesel]

21 hours ago, Geoff_H said:

I found another partly finished project for sale.  It is the right weight and landing speed but has retractable undercarriage.  I thought that this was not allowed in Recreational aircraft.  Am I right?

What is it ???

 

I have yet to see an RAA registered aircraft , that has retractable undercarriage, that performs any better than well faired, fixed undercarriages with the possible exception of the Europa XS Mono Wheel.

[onetrack]

The Searay has retractable undercarriage.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Aerodyne_SeaRey

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

The Searay has retractable undercarriage.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Aerodyne_SeaRey

Well there you go - I never think of amphibians. In this country,their application is fairy specialised .

[Thruster88]

How about the Blackshape prime. 35k stall 148knot cruise.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackshape_Prime

[Geoff_H]

I once read an article and if my memory serves me right, it was about CA retractable Cherokee.  The author said that the extra weight of retractable reduced speed of the aircraft, the lack of drag increased the speed.  It was claimed that it only gained 5knots.  Hardly worth the expense.

I expect that the extra weight would push the landing speed above the minimum.  The aircraft seems to be risky to purchase.  Iay have to remove the retractable.

[Geoff_H]

I remember once that I could not retract the U/C on my Mooney, usually good for 170kts.  With the dirty U/C down the max speed was 120kts.

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Thruster88 said:

How about the Blackshape prime. 35k stall 148knot cruise.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackshape_Prime

Well that's if you believe the figures - I know of two factory built RAA registerable (in Australia now) fixed undercarriage Rotax 912 ULS powered that will high speed cruise at 135 knots indicated (18-20 L/hr) and stall below 30 knots. I know of two kit builds one with fixed undercarriage that has a number of World records to its name that can achieve 170 knots using a Rotax 912 ULS and stall at about 35 knots another kit build with retractable mono wheel that will cruise at 145 knot + using the Rotax 914 unfortunately the stall is 45 knots.

1 hour ago, Geoff_H said:

I remember once that I could not retract the U/C on my Mooney, usually good for 170kts.  With the dirty U/C down the max speed was 120kts.

Oh that I could afford a Mooney - still the fastest piston single engine production aircraft. The heavier and more powerful the aircraft, the more justification there is for retractable undercarriage. The Cirrus goes against this "rule" but just look at the effort that has gone into the streamlining of the undercarriage. An owner of a  Cirrus 215-315 hp you are not all that worried about econamy.

[Blueadventures]

4 hours ago, onetrack said:

The Searay has retractable undercarriage.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Aerodyne_SeaRey

Also Tecnams.

[Geoff_H]

After Mooney released their latest model Sirrus released their latest model.  It was a little faster than the Mooney, Sirrus claimed the title to fastest production aircraft etc.  However Mooney had an ace up their sleeves.  They announced a change to the propeller on their latest model and free issued it to all that had bought that model.  They regained the title!  

[skippydiesel]

13 hours ago, Blueadventures said:

Also Tecnams.

Tecnam retractable looks great. Underwhelming performance, even when fitted with a CS prop - unless used for CS/Retract training not really a cost effective purchase

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, Geoff_H said:

After Mooney released their latest model Sirrus released their latest model.  It was a little faster than the Mooney, Sirrus claimed the title to fastest production aircraft etc.  However Mooney had an ace up their sleeves.  They announced a change to the propeller on their latest model and free issued it to all that had bought that model.  They regained the title!  

Mooney should "spruik" the fuel econamy advantage over the Cirrus

[Geoff_H]

People who buy Mooney aircraft don't usually care about fuel economy, just speed.  Lol.  

[Blueadventures]

18 minutes ago, Geoff_H said:

People who buy Mooney aircraft don't usually care about fuel economy, just speed.  Lol.  

More speed and bit narrower.

[Thruster88]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Mooney should "spruik" the fuel econamy advantage over the Cirrus

It is a bit late for Mooney. You could say Cirrus finished them off. On a trip from Sydney to Adelaide the Mooney wins by a mere 14 minutes. The extra cost of maintenance and insurance for the retractable would be far greater than the fuel saving.

[Geoff_H]

3 hours ago, Blueadventures said:

More speed and bit narrower.

Actually exactly the same inside dimensions as a Cessna 172. I won a bet on that a few years ago.  The inside does look smaller, quite deceptive

[Geoff_H]

26 minutes ago, Geoff_H said:

2 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

It is a bit late for Mooney. You could say Cirrus finished them off. On a trip from Sydney to Adelaide the Mooney wins by a mere 14 minutes. The extra cost of maintenance and insurance for the retractable would be far greater than the fuel saving.

 

Mooney owners don't care about the cost.  Read the story of the M20J development.  The number of go faster things around is huge.  Eg aileron seals USD 2k speed increase 2kts.  Most Mooney aircraft have heaps spent

[Geoff_H]

In the 7 years that I had the Mooney J I spent $120k on improvement and update. On a trip in the outback into the wind having a Cessna say he could only get 90kts owing to wind.  I had 130kts.  If you beat a Cirrus by 1 minute, it was worth it.  Never flew other than throttle to the wall. I only sold it because the wife refused to fly anymore. So doing a once around the block after a long drive to the airport from Sydney I have in to her wishes and sold it.  I would like to do aerobatics.  Looking at doing that soon

[Thruster88]

Back to buying a partially built kit. One should consider the total cost realistically. How would it compare to this already flying machine, as fast as an older Mooney, beautiful control harmony, aerobatic,  1500+ climb rate and it has RAAus rego. Of course you could not do aero with numbers on the side.

 

https://www.planesales.com.au/details/Listing/Single-Engine-Propeller/7712/1989-Vans-RV4-Aircraft?utm_source=ListingID-7712&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=1989 Vans RV4 Aircraft

[skippydiesel]

If we are promoting RV 's what about this one in Toowoomba:

 

https://www.aviationtrader.com.au/listings/vans-rv-4-experimental-slash-homebuilt-aircraft-for-sale-in-toowoomba-australia/?Category=2&Manufacturer=VANS&Model=RV-4&Country=10&City=TOOWOOMBA&ScopeCategoryIDs=13