Student Pilot Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 9 hours ago, jackc said: Nope, not yet….. live in a very urban area and am not a party animal, can have shopping delivered. Waiting for more information on Moderna via my medical journal, I will pick what I want, when the time comes. Not going to be told WHAT vaccine I am allowed. My medical journal is my bible on all things medicine. Do you drink alcohol or smoke? Have you flown commercially in airlines? All of those have risks way in excess of the odds of any vaccine problems. Are you a risk taker? 1 1
jackc Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 Just now, Student Pilot said: Do you drink alcohol or smoke? Have you flown commercially in airlines? All of those have risks way in excess of the odds of any vaccine problems. Are you a risk taker? Never in my life on the first two counts, I have worn out my law of averages being killed in a commercial airliner crash. No more commercial airline trips, unless I am unfortunate enough to get a ride in the back of an RFDS aircraft. Yes, when I can see a good chance of the odds being in my favour. 1
octave Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 We are now up to 5.18 Billion doses administered worldwide I am not sure at what stage some people will consider it to be safe. I am happy for people to decide not to have the vaccine as long as they are willing to be responsible for the consequences. Delta Air Lines is raising health insurance premiums for unvaccinated employees by $200 a month to cover higher Covid costs This seems fair enough to me. (of course taking into account availability and the people who genuinely should cant be vaccinated) If people genuinely mistrust the health system or believe that covid is not serious then perhaps they should not turn up at hospital if they do get a serious case. 3 1
KRviator Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 17 minutes ago, octave said: We are now up to 5.18 Billion doses administered worldwide I am not sure at what stage some people will consider it to be safe. Asbestos and Thalidomide were both thought to be the ducks nuts early in the piece too...Just sayin...🤨 1
octave Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, KRviator said: Asbestos and Thalidomide were both thought to be the ducks nuts early in the piece too...Just sayin...🤨 Ok but many drugs we are prescribed have not necessarily been around for many years. We take new antibiotics, blood pressure dugs statins etc. The thing we do know is that for some people the long term affects of covid are bad. Some people have even required lung transplants. It does not seem like we are ever going to eliminate covid so the likelihood is that eventually most of us will get it. The question is how badly will we be affected by it? 1 1
jackc Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, octave said: Ok but many drugs we are prescribed have not necessarily been around for many years. We take new antibiotics, blood pressure dugs statins etc. The thing we do know is that for some people the long term affects of covid are bad. Some people have even required lung transplants. It does not seem like we are ever going to eliminate covid so the likelihood is that eventually most of us will get it. The question is how badly will we be affected by it? Big worry is, will we see any new severe strains the vaccine will not cover? We can only wait and see on that one…… 1
octave Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, jackc said: Big worry is, will we see any new severe strains the vaccine will not cover? We can only wait and see on that one…… This is possible as with any vaccine. It is also a risk that more people with active infection the higher the chance of variants. These problems are considered and weighed up. Here is a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, I have not yet had time to read it so I don't know what it says but I do consider this publication to be high quality. SARS-CoV-2 Variants and Vaccines I suppose the question is that we only have so many options, we can vaccinate, we can lockdown or use other social distancing methods or we can let it rip. Edited August 29, 2021 by octave 1
skippydiesel Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 NSW, the origin & continuing spreader,of our current CV19 outbreak is not & has not, been under any form, of what I would consider, to be a true quarantine/lockdown. The conditions for successful quarantine have been know for 100's of years - this knowledge has somehow been overlooked by the Scomo/Gladys teams. The rules for a proper quarantine are quite simple - no one must leave their home/local (very few exceptions). I understand, in this modern era, when we are all so dependent on others for daily existence, that certain very few professions must continue eg emergency responders/police/medical practitioners/electrical/water/sewage/ food supply. This does not include priest/rabies/mullahs/removalists/real estate agents/ construction workers (except in an emergency situation)/ fast food outlets/etc - the list of, supposedly essential, workers goes on & on - is it any wonder that CV19 has spread interstate & to remote Australia? If you want to do the least damage to the econamy you must aim for a short sharp (comprehensive) quarantine - this long drawn out NSW affair of a quazi lockdown, is doing untold damage to our econamy and its people. We will never know for sure, however there is every indication that if the Glady's team had done a proper lockdown, when the limo driver was identified as positive, we would not be in the situation we are today. Sure Delta is more infectious - so was the plague. The Scomo/Gladys team are promoting vaccination as the "get out of jail" solution - why? cause it hides their incompetence. I would speculate, that even with a true (whole of population) 80-90% full vaccination, this virus will continue to cause significant social/economic disruption for years to come. It will be a combination of high % vaccination AND fast well targeted management of outbreaks, that will minimise this. The latter skills being, demonstrably absent from the Scomo/Glady team. 1 1
Marty_d Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 10 hours ago, jackc said: Nope, not yet….. live in a very urban area and am not a party animal, can have shopping delivered. Waiting for more information on Moderna via my medical journal, I will pick what I want, when the time comes. Not going to be told WHAT vaccine I am allowed. My medical journal is my bible on all things medicine. So you're a qualified doctor then? I could read a medical journal and be no better informed than before, because I haven't got the specialist training and the hands-on experience of treating people. So why don't you just talk to a doctor? 1 1
jackc Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 15 minutes ago, Marty_d said: So you're a qualified doctor then? I could read a medical journal and be no better informed than before, because I haven't got the specialist training and the hands-on experience of treating people. So why don't you just talk to a doctor? I have been studying internal medicine for 8 years now as a subscribed researcher. I do research on many medical subjects, for my GP. 1
Bruce Tuncks Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 In defence of Turbs, Jackc, he did not say your idea was stupid. He said that publicly saying that stuff was a bad idea. I'm on your side in that I reckon in general its the spirit of things we should obey and not the letter. There are some things in which safety dictates that you should disobey the letter of the regulation, and many regulations which are just plain nasty and unnecessary. I'm all for disobeying them too, but you should not do it too publicly. Unless its your last act on this earth, but even then they might victimize your previous peers. 2
jackc Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 9 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said: In defence of Turbs, Jackc, he did not say your idea was stupid. He said that publicly saying that stuff was a bad idea. I'm on your side in that I reckon in general its the spirit of things we should obey and not the letter. There are some things in which safety dictates that you should disobey the letter of the regulation, and many regulations which are just plain nasty and unnecessary. I'm all for disobeying them too, but you should not do it too publicly. Unless its your last act on this earth, but even then they might victimize your previous peers. Yes, I am outspoken and that has paid some dividends over my lifetime. I have never been afraid to speak out. Regulatory Authorities need to understand the deficiencies that people see in their systems, and they get a lot of ideas for and against on forums like this and personal communications. IF making controversial statements upsets them, particularly from many people…….then they need to take that onboard. Being standover merchants will only promote the breaking of laws etc. I always look at what I do in this life……is my behaviour compromising anyone’s safety, has an extreme element of risk to my own safety? As we get older we have a better understanding of consequences, well I hope so! Lastly, I know only one person on these forums, personally. The rest whom I have never met. I have always like to meet people and get to understand where they come from. Unfortunately, living in the Qld desert wasteland and Covid means I am limited, I only have my local aero club members to meet with. My only other interaction is these forums with people I don’t know and I have no idea of their knowledge, their interests, their verbal opinions. When dealing with politicians, corporate management, medical professionals etc, I do have skills of communication and negotiation. But none of that can really be expressed properly, here. 3 1
turboplanner Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 6 minutes ago, Flightrite said: Found this on another forum, so true!:-) Didn't take long; the whistling past the graveyard has started as we head for the pandemic of the unvaccinated. 2 3 1
aro Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 The internet provides amazing resources to hear first hand what others are experiencing. Here is a thread with ICU nurses talking about what they are seeing;
Bruce Tuncks Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 My grandfather, who I really didn't know but still admire, was one of those "undisciplined" Australian troops who spoiled a bit of the poms enjoyment of their first world war. I am only here writing this because of the "Breaker Morant" law which stopped the poms killing Australian soldiers by firing squad. He was a great guy who believed in education, social justice and temperance, although he was damaged ( profoundly deaf ) because of his ww1 time. He never even had running water inside his house but he sent 3 kids to university. 1
jackc Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 12 minutes ago, turboplanner said: Didn't take long; the whistling past the graveyard has started as we head for the pandemic of the unvaccinated. Only if people do not take responsibility, by wearing masks, carrying sanitiser, observe social distancing and avoid places where people gather and crowds. We have no contact groceries delivery, we don’t go to parties, restaurants. The Govt can’t fix it all……a lot of it is up to us as individuals. 2 2
aro Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 54 minutes ago, jackc said: I only have my local aero club members to meet with That's all it takes - that's how it spreads. Members of your aero club might have more contact with other people, fly to other airfields etc. They bring it back, then you all catch it from each other. 2
turboplanner Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, jackc said: Only if people do not take responsibility, by wearing masks, carrying sanitiser, observe social distancing and avoid places where people gather and crowds. We have no contact groceries delivery, we don’t go to parties, restaurants. The Govt can’t fix it all……a lot of it is up to us as individuals. The people who are vaccinated will no longer have to worry about wearning masks, sanitiser, social distancing, and Australians being Australians will be filling the coffee shops and pubs and partying, giving an even spread throughout the community.Pick up a petrol pump handle, chances are it will be Covid coated, pick up some parts and somone will sneeze.
jackc Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 1 minute ago, aro said: That's all it takes - that's how it spreads. Members of your aero club might have more contact with other people, fly to other airfields etc. They bring it back, then you all catch it from each other. They are all farmers who live in the bush, like me. Ever been to Thangool Qld? airport……it’s covered in cobwebs! That is where we meet. 1
onetrack Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 31 minutes ago, Flightrite said: Found this on another forum, so true!:-) The people espousing this approach are the same ones who reckon that freedom to do anything they like, at all times, must be the supreme rule. They're blockheads who refuse to obey even sensible laws and instructions, because it might "infringe on their personal freedoms". These are the same people who believe the only way to a safe society is to arm everyone - including their children, with high-powered firearms. You see them teaching their tiny little babes to use firearms on YouTube videos, while they show off their collection of 113 firearms that they need to preserve their personal "freedoms". Of course, their personal freedom is under constant threat, because they don't believe that there should be any laws or restrictions on what they can do. Civil society is entirely reliant on laws and regulations that are made to preserve the peace and the amenable lifestyle that we all currently enjoy. The problem is the percentage of the population that believe laws don't apply to them. The pinnacle of that approach is Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs and their adherents, who we all know, are just fine upstanding citizens. 1 1 1 1
jackc Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, turboplanner said: The people who are vaccinated will no longer have to worry about wearning masks, sanitiser, social distancing, and Australians being Australians will be filling the coffee shops and pubs and partying, giving an even spread throughout the community.Pick up a petrol pump handle, chances are it will be Covid coated, pick up some parts and somone will sneeze. Still becoming infected and spreading it everywhere…..the vaccine stops the person having vaccine, from getting so sick…….that’s it. Does not stop the spread, only masks, sanitisers, social distancing etc will do that. 1
turboplanner Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, jackc said: They are all farmers who live in the bush, like me. Ever been to Thangool Qld? airport……it’s covered in cobwebs! That is where we meet. Famous last words. A Couple of weeks ago the Delta strain hit Mildura, Bendigo, Shepparton and next day was in Benalla and Mansfield. Farmers can travel hundreds of kilometres in a day to buy a ram.
aro Posted August 29, 2021 Posted August 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, jackc said: Ever been to Thangool Qld? Does Thangool Qld have any shops, where you can buy stuff that is not produced locally? A postal service maybe? Or anyone who travels somewhere these are available? There has been a significant amount of spread by truck drivers. If e.g. a shop owner likes to have a chat to the delivery drivers when they come through, that is a risk. There have been a lot of remote places that thought they were protected. It works, until it doesn't. Eventually it gets in, and then rips through because people were not expecting it. You might see some parallels with the situation in Australia in general...
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