Covid 19

[kgwilson]

There is nothing you can say to someone whose vision of the world has become so blinkered they are unable to accept that opinion and facts are different things. Opinions are derived from information gained and sometimes factually based but filtered so that they fit the scenario the opinion has established. Facts are information documented and based on irrefutably proven, documented and demonstrated evidence that can be peer reviewed and return identical results every time.

[Marty_d]

4 hours ago, Flightrite said:

Anything from the corrupt Govt ABC is biased! It's the outlet the grubs rely on to create fear & panic!

Unlike Sky News, Fox, Facebook, Breitbart, QANON and Foul Ole Ron down the pub - they've got the REAL story and absolutely no barrow to push...

 

* For those that have trouble with irony:  The above is ironic.  It is NOT true.  In fact the total opposite of this is true.

[rgmwa]

5 hours ago, Flightrite said:

Anything from the corrupt Govt ABC is biased! It's the outlet the grubs rely on to create fear & panic!

And your.recommendation for the most reliable, trustworthy news source would be ....?

[Marty_d]

Actually, he must be right.  If the LIBERAL NATIONAL PARTY government is using the ABC to push their line, then the ABC must be biased.  Towards the right.  Those dirty, lowdown right-wing bastards at the ABC. 

I finally understand.  For years people have been saying they're biased because they're a bunch of lefties.  But it was all a front!  The ABC is a right-wing newsrag.  Don't listen to them, folks.  Go get your news from somewhere a bit more left-leaning... the Spectator, The Australian, the Daily Mail...

 

More irony!!  Just saying.  Some people can't spot it.

[turboplanner]

The Guardian?

[Flightrite]

Something for the fearful to ponder over! Found on another site:-)Human rights abuse & discrimination by the Govt!

---

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Flightrite

[Garfly]

 

"Disagree? ... Then go look this up because this is all fact."

 

Hmmm, sounds sooo familiar, even the slightly odd phrasing. 

Come on guys, can't we, at least, invent some new clichés.

 

Jo Goebbels, famously, had bitter contempt for the credulous mobs swallowing his hateful uber-rhetoric:  "I could tell them to jump out the window and they'd do it." 

 

I imagine the hidden persuaders churning out those little scripts feel exactly the same.

 

BTW, while the ABC and the Guardian do have their biases, at least they also retain the capacity for shame, if, say, they're caught-out (by Media Watch? ;- ) publishing anything they know to be untrue (or even in all innocence). In other words, they really do respect their audiences; something that can't be said for most media empires. And certainly not for the email chain letters your crazy uncle insists on re-sending to the whole family.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Garfly

[aro]

49 minutes ago, Flightrite said:

Something for the fearful to ponder over

 

It's rubbish because it assumes vaccines work 100%, and there is no penalty as a society when someone gets sick.

 

Vaccines have benefits at an individual and at a population level.

 

At an individual level:

- They provide 90+% protection against severe disease and death

 

At a population level

- If enough people are vaccinated they reduce the probability of infection across the whole population. This means less infection overall, and less likelihood of new variants which might be more transmissible or vaccine resistant.

- Vaccines are not equally good for everyone. Many people are immune deficient for one reason or another (disease, or even just getting old) so rely on other people getting vaccinated so they are less likely to be infected. Many of these people have been living almost as hermits for 20 months now, they know if they catch this disease they are likely to die.

 

If too many people do not get vaccinated:

- More people get infected, which means new variants which might evade the vaccination are more likely.

- More people get seriously ill, which puts more strain on the health care workers. In NSW government predictions are that the health care system will be overwhelmed in October.

- COVID patients in ICU take places needed for other people. Heart attacks, strokes, accidents, cancer - all need ICU places that will be occupied by COVID patients. I know a guy who ended up in ICU last year and almost died after a dental procedure. If the places were occupied by COVID patients maybe he would be dead.

 

So you can claim that not being vaccinated only affects yourself, but that is rubbish.

[octave]

38 minutes ago, Flightrite said:

Something for the fearful to ponder over! Found on another site:-)Human rights abuse & discrimination by the Govt!

Firstly I do not consider myself to be "fearful".  Am I fearful if I wear a seatbelt when I drive?    It perhaps could be suggested that some are overly fearful of the vaccination.   

I acknowledge your personal right to not get vaccinated however rights do come with responsibilities.      I joined the RAAF many years ago and during recruit course we were fully vaccinated.  You did have the right to refuse however this made you unable to fulfil your duties in terms of being ready to be sent anywhere.   If you did not get vaccinated you were shown the door.  Is this discrimination.

 

Of course society and the military are not the same thing however jobs come with their own conditions.  An airline pilot has onerous medical requirements.

 

Here is an actual situation that we have dealt with this week.

 

My frail elderly mother lives interstate.   Being elderly and frail she gets a subsidized cleaner to come  once a week to help her.    My mother has only just received her second vax.     A couple of weeks ago my mother was talking with the cleaner about corvid and the cleaner said they weren't vaxxed and didn't intend to get vaxxed.  She was anti vax.     I phoned the agency that sent the cleaner and said we wanted someone else who was or intended to get vaccinated.   A different cleaner now visits her.   I don't know whether the first cleaner was sacked or redeployed.  

 

I respect the right of this cleaner not to get vaccinated but it makes them unsuitable to carry out this line of work especially as it provides services to the elderly.    This is not discrimination as such but it is about being suitable for the job.

[kgwilson]

Where do you drag this up from FR. I looked it up even though I didn't need to.

 

Of the 7 points listed I agree with the first 3, but 4, 5, & 6 are just BS and 7 is an opinion.

 

I am person A - fact

I can go anywhere I want - Untrue or Not fact. We are all locked down regardless of vaccination status.

Person A does not have to get tested - Untrue or Not fact. If I have symptoms I should get tested.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Flightrite said:

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This is a unsubtle manipulation/selective use of fact,  probably designed to appeal to those who are experiencing anxiety about the CV 19 vaccination regime.

[turboplanner]

3 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

This is a unsubtle manipulation/selective use of fact,  probably designed to appeal to those who are experiencing anxiety about the CV 19 vaccination regime.

or looking for an alternative to the ABC.

[Garfly]

Precisely.  (Alas and alack.)

 

Who wouldn't take advice from Flighty's mates before boring old (tyrannical grub) Norman Swan.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Garfly

[kgwilson]

In 1973 I went for my first trip overseas. I had to get vaccinated to visit certain places if I'd been to other certain places. I still have my international vaccination certificate as I was vaccinated against Cholera, Typhoid, Yellow Fever & Smallpox. No-one argued, no-one wanted to know what was in the vaccines, it was the accepted norm and everyone did it. These diseases are vary rare now.

 

Nearly 40 years later and over a hundred years since the first global pandemic requiring masks and we get hysterical nut jobs, anti vaxxers and a myriad of other so called 'Freedom" mobsters with no or dubious credentials telling the expert epidemiologists and highly qualified medical professionals with peer reviewed and published reports and documents they are wrong.

[Kyle Communications]

Its all a crock really...I havent got into this debate because there is so much BS around.

 

The facts are this virus is going to be around for decades now or some variant of it. The only way to help you not die from it is get vaccinated but that is still no guarentee that some certainly wont fall off the perch. If you were healthy and didnt have any other issues like crook ticker or asthma or lung then most likely you wont kick the bucket. If you are unvaccinated with no protection at all then your chance of dying is much greater. Its pretty much as simple as that.

 

If you want to take the chance then thats all on you. Remembering that if you are unvaccinated and you get it you will be shedding a lot more of the virus so you will be giving it to others , if you are vaccinated it is proven by medical testing that you do not shed anywhere near the same amount so less likely to infect others. 

 

Now we get to the real reason why the govt is crapping themselves and forcing al lot of this....the more of the unvaccinated out there, the more will get really sick..this will take up so much of the hospital/medical resources that there wont be any left to take care of the normal run of the mill medical stuff that just has to happen now. Like heart bypasses, appendix ops,  cancer ops, hysterectymies, broken bones etc etc..there wont be enough beds in any hospitals. Thats the reason. The governments dont want to acknowledge that the hospital system and all the staff required to run all this medical has not grown at a rate for the population to be any where near efficient.

 

This virus will end up like being the flu...each year you will need a jab as a booster or to combat the latest vaariant. it will never go away now it has a foothold. Until they can get a vaccine that works like polio or measals that can kill the virus it will always be around.

 

Get vaccinated or not...its your choice if you want to die or not. Me ?  I am vaccinated but I do have  a few underlying issues..I get the flu needle every year and so far I havent had the flu for many many years. Anything that gives you a better chance of surviving something that will kill you has to be better than playing lotto...and you know what those odds are. Lets face it you can be walking down the road and get run over by a bus and we all have to die sometime some just earlier than others.

 

 

 

 

 

[octave]

As an analogy it is like we are on a boat that is taking on water. 

 

 The captain wants us to urgently bail water out of the boat.    Most of the passengers can see the sense in this and are putting in a joint effort to save the boat.    A few of the passengers are objecting.  "You cant tell me what to do"   or "you are exaggerating the danger of the boat taking on water" or "we just have to live with a certain amount of water in the boat"  or "you people are just afraid and hysterical, it is just water after all"    or " we are all going to die one day anyway"   or  "I don't mind bailing water out but this bucket this isn't the best bucket, I will just wait for a better bucket"  or  "I will wait to see how successful the people bailing out water are and if it seems to work then I will join in"

 

Not only this but some the "anti bailers"  want to convince people not to bail even though they are likely to benefit from the majority.   I respect your right not to help bail out the water but just get out of the way and let the rest of us do it.  Don't be surprised if the other passengers judge you.

[facthunter]

Pilots are known for the % of rugged individualist types that gravitate to it. They don't make the best team players and often adopt a "press on regardless" type of behaviour. The Tenerefe sp? dreadful prang is a good example of this bad trait. Nev

[Garfly]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Pilots are known for the % of rugged individualist types that gravitate to it. They don't make the best team players and often adopt a "press on regardless" type of behaviour. The Tenerefe sp? dreadful prang is a good example of this bad trait. Nev

True, Nev ... but pilots generally, are also trained to higher than average levels of critical thinking.

Heck, even the RAAus HF exam warns ominously of the many cognitive traps flesh is heir to. (Like: 'That must be true because I want it to be'.)

 

That's why a forum like this (though we span the political spectrum) is not fertile ground for conspiracy theories. That material is designed to appeal to a different demo; preferably folks who've never been required to examine human factors from the outside. Quite unlike the designers themselves, of course. 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Garfly

[facthunter]

Dunno about the special training but I do believe in training of the right kind for Pilots. They should know what's happening not find out the hard way. Unfortunately NOW the truth is getting harder to find through the deliberate efforts.of many who profit  in one way or another by spreading disinformation and straight out lies. It's hard to TRUST anything.

   In desperation many flock to dangerous fixes and when /If it becomes politicised we are in a dark place. Conspiracy theories abound, but I just follow the money/power trail and you won't often be wrong.

  As for all blindly following like sheep, if I was on a sinking boat or a burning train i wouldn't mind being in the majority obeying an instruction to get off it.

  IF you are not sceptical later in life you have been very sheltered or asleep..Nev

[spacesailor]

Conspiracy theories 

Now it,s out !.

The police are using the Q R details to find & arrest people  !?

AFTER ALL THE DENIAL FROM THE C M O.

The police are addmiting they did.

spacesailor

[Garfly]

No conspiracy, no theory.

A news story based on facts about Police over-reach in some states.

 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/breach-of-trust-police-using-qr-check-in-data-to-solve-crimes-20210903-p58om8.html

 

‘Breach of trust’:

Police using QR check-in data to solve crimes

The nation’s privacy watchdog has called for police forces to be banned from accessing information from QR code check-in applications after law enforcement agencies have sought to use the contact-tracing data on at least six occasions to solve unrelated crimes.

There are also growing calls from backbench MPs and civil liberties groups to phase out the compulsory check-in applications once the worst of the COVID-19 pandemic is over. //

 

NSW, South Australia and the Northern Territory have ruled out the use of the check-in app data by police. //

 

A public health order in NSW now bans the use of QR code data for police investigations, stipulating it can only be used “for the purposes of contact tracing during the COVID-19 pandemic”.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Garfly

[Kyle Communications]

Well the above story for me is quite ok.great the coppers are solving crimes using any tool necessary...its only a issue if you are doing something wrong. I believe in cameras everywhere to help stop crime..all these people going on its a invasion of privacy then they must have something to hide. I could not care less if someone in a control room somewhere saw me walking down the footparth scratching my arse or picking my nose.

 

I am not doing anything wrong or illegal who gives a sh#t ?

 

I dont have any issue of the coppers trying to solve crimes...ASIO listen into all of your ph calls and have AI listening looking for keywords. The GSM network was delayed when they put it up because ASIO didnt have all the gear in so they could listen to all the phone traffic. Crooks get by this now of course by encrypting their voice

 

It all goes to whether you are being a criminal or not...I am not so I dont ahve to worry

 

[turboplanner]

I notice so far no one has said they've checked this out with their State or Territory Department of Health.

I've run out of lookup credits, but I'm fairly sure that when the contact codes were introduced there was a cut-off time, either related to the Contact Tracing Activity or sunsetting with the State of Emergency legislation.   

Where this story sits is misuse of the system, and probably in one State.

[Garfly]

Yes, the SMH story (above) says:

 

"Queensland Police gained access to the Check In Qld app in June through a search warrant after the theft of a police-issued firearm, which led to an officer being stood down. Western Australian Police has used its data twice without a warrant, which led to the state then banning police from accessing the data, while Victoria Police has tried but been rebuffed on at least three occasions.

NSW, South Australia and the Northern Territory have ruled out the use of the check-in app data by police."

[facthunter]

Not sure the 'IF you've committed no crime then it's no problem" covers it.. In an ideal world ,maybe. Police have been know to ignore stuff that helps YOUR case. Ive never ever committed a crime but that doesn't stop them acting on some general cirumstantial evidence to verbal you.. I know they have to deal with some low types BUT...  As a motorcyclist in the 60's I was hounded as it was their policy to "get them off the road" It was my only transport and certainly legal to own one.   There's plenty more but I won't bore you.Nev