Covid 19

[skippydiesel]

5 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

This is getting like the French. Just before their revolution. Those in power against those that are starving.

No bread " Let them eat cake ".

THEN the royals lost their heads.

Who's parliamentary head will roll, after this chaos ?.

Not so much - the French authorities were maintaining a system that protected the elite ruling class, in such a way as to ensured poverty in the masses  - this sort of elitism (USA take note) will almost always leads to descent/revolution.

 

As far as head tolling - both Scomo & Gladys have demonstrated a level of incompetence that would have been hard to imagine befor CV. So my money is on both of their heads ending up in  the basket.

 

[skippydiesel]

1 minute ago, red750 said:

Spacey, this thing spreads like ants at a picnic. What's your answer?

I am sure Spacesailor will answear for himself however I would point out that political manoeuvring/shenanigans is incompatible with the running of a true quarantine effort ie you play politics and you ensure the failure of quarantine / lockdown (NSW).

 

 

[aro]

Meanwhile in Florida people are being warned to conserve water, because they are short of liquid oxygen used to treat water due to COVID demand...

[spacesailor]

WELL

To remove the Freedom of Australian's Right to walk their dog, or whatever needs to be, In the cool of night night. After finishing work at say 8pm Home at say 45 minutes later, have dinner then walk the mut, & be back in the house BEFORE CURFEW, 

don't You think it's wrong.  I do.  If your dog barks to say it needs walkies at ANY Godforsaken hour. IT NEEDS a walk, " don't forget the doggie bag for the droppings ! "

My Dr refuses to give Any written exemptions, even knowing the wife has a lung problem & cannot get enough air while wearing that mask.

spacesailor

[turboplanner]

3 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

WELL

To remove the Freedom of Australian's Right to walk their dog, or whatever needs to be, In the cool of night night. After finishing work at say 8pm Home at say 45 minutes later, have dinner then walk the mut, & be back in the house BEFORE CURFEW, 

don't You think it's wrong.  I do.  If your dog barks to say it needs walkies at ANY Godforsaken hour. IT NEEDS a walk, " don't forget the doggie bag for the droppings ! "

My Dr refuses to give Any written exemptions, even knowing the wife has a lung problem & cannot get enough air while wearing that mask.

spacesailor

Well you're so busy blaming the politicians, wrongly, that you make your wife suffer. Check your Health Department or CHO to see what the mask exemptions are.

 

Same with the freedom to walk your dog. Try reading the Health Department lockdown conditions to see if there's a lockdown time there. No you don't have political freedoms in a State of Emergency, you're under Health Orders.

[Flying Binghi]

3 hours ago, kgwilson said:

Or go to Florida where ICU is at 200% capacity.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/florida-icu-200-percent-capacity-covid-hospitalizations-spiral-out-control-1619597

Hmmm... a “spiral out of control” 🤔  ...I thought a plateau had been reached...😏 I guess the all-cause rates will show the reality.

 

Seems every few years...

 

“...2017-2018 influenza epidemic is sending people to hospitals and urgent-care centers in every state, and medical centers are responding with extraordinary measures: asking staff to work overtime, setting up triage tents, restricting friends and family visits and canceling elective surgeries, to name a few...”

 

https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/

 

 

 

 

.

[Flying Binghi]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

Not so much - the French authorities were maintaining a system that protected the elite ruling class, in such a way as to ensured poverty in the masses  - this sort of elitism (USA take note) will almost always leads to descent/revolution...

.....

 

Yep. Trump got elected on a platform of getting rid of the corrupt and senile “elite ruling class”. Dunno how keen he were on the follow through, though he got turfed out before much happened. 

 

Now the US has got a senile President who seems to spend all his time at Camp David trying to channel some ‘West Wing’ inspiration, 😏 and a Vice President who is off to visit Vietnam....🤨

 

 

 

 

.

[turboplanner]

3 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

Hmmm... a “spiral out of control” 🤔  ...I thought a plateau had been reached...😏 I guess the all-cause rates will show the reality.

 

Seems every few years...

 

“...2017-2018 influenza epidemic is sending people to hospitals and urgent-care centers in every state, and medical centers are responding with extraordinary measures: asking staff to work overtime, setting up triage tents, restricting friends and family visits and canceling elective surgeries, to name a few...”

 

https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/

 

No one said a plateau had been reached in the US FB, and no relationship to the 2017-2018 flu year except and example that US medical facilities have quite a small capacity limit when handling any mass outbreak. Ours is not a lot better, and NSW will be getting towards facility limits in the next few days based on the current expansion.

 

The US couldn't make contact tracing and social distancing work, so they are trying to vaccinate their way out of the very high death rate, and having a lot of success by their standards, but they are light years behind Australia, and where we can launch Isolating attacks, bubbles, control rings and isolate people, they have to put up with the exponential spread of the disease through the unvaccinated. 

 

There is plenty of data, on a daily basis for every State, so you don't have to dream up "all-cause" theories to know exactly what's going on at all times.

 

 

[octave]

4 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

...2017-2018 influenza epidemic is sending people to hospitals and urgent-care centers in every state, and medical centers are responding with extraordinary measures: asking staff to work overtime, setting up triage tents, restricting friends and family visits and canceling elective surgeries, to name a few...”

 

 

It is to be hoped that come winter there is not a flu epidemic in addition to the covid cases.   

 

FB why don't you lay out for us what you think our response should be, should we just let it rip and see what happens?     

 

 

[jackc]

Lockdowns should only be done in high density areas,  where there is the highest potential for virus spread,  IF people are allowed out of those high density areas to rural areas…….then it spreads.  There is no need to lockdown a whole state and make rural people suffer,  because of the spread in cities themselves.

But the govt is worried that IF there is favouritism on lockdown areas, there will be riots, so they lock the whole state down.

The rioters will overrun the Police, because no room in watch houses, nor jails and they don’t have the manpower to write up all the paperwork.

Its a very delicate situation:-(

My only advice  to people is…….do whatever it takes to move from a high density area to a rural place, a big change to life’s plans for many.  IF you don’t……the city living environment will get worse.   I made the decision 30 years ago and moved to 160 acres, shifted my business here and declared I would never return to the swimming pools, flashing lights and movie stars of the concrete wastelands.

I do click and carboot shopping, never go to restaurants, parties nothing…….just stay out of circulation as much as possible. 

IF you think the Govt is going to solve the COVID problem, it won’t.

The main responsibility rests with the people, that’s us to carry out our own precautions against infection,  by living our lives in the best way possible to keep away and protect ourselves personally from infection sources.

 

[turboplanner]

As soon as someone starts talking about the "China Virus or US social media gossip" it's a sure sign to disregard every fruitloop statement made.

The internet these days allows us to get every single fact a US citizen gets, from some of the best medical facilities in the world. There is absolutely no point in collecting the thoughts of every academic who figures he or she has a better handle on what has happened or might happen next compared to a facilities employing several thousand qualified professionals.

 

[octave]

19 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

Doherty also suggested all the teens and twenty’s in Australia should go to the Gold Coast for a week-end party and get the China virus..😏

 

 

I think you have misunderstood.

 

 

[turboplanner]

3 minutes ago, jackc said:

Lockdowns should only be done in high density areas,  where there is the highest potential for virus spread,  IF people are allowed out of those high density areas to rural areas…….then it spreads.  There is no need to lockdown a whole state and make rural people suffer,  because of the spread in cities themselves.

But the govt is worried that IF there is favouritism on lockdown areas, there will be riots, so they lock the whole state down.

The rioters will overrun the Police, because no room in watch houses, nor jails and they don’t have the manpower to write up all the paperwork.

Its a very delicate situation:-(

My only advice  to people is…….do whatever it takes to move from a high density area to a rural place, a big change to life’s plans for many.  IF you don’t……the city living environment will get worse.   I made the decision 30 years ago and moved to 160 acres, shifted my business here and declared I would never return to the swimming pools, flashing lights and movie stars of the concrete wastelands.

I do click and carboot shopping, never go to restaurants, parties nothing…….just stay out of circulation as much as possible. 

IF you think the Govt is going to solve the COVID problem, it won’t.

The main responsibility rests with the people, that’s us to carry out our own precautions against infection,  by living our lives in the best way possible to keep away and protect ourselves personally from infection sources.

 

That's not correct, particularly with the Delta strain of Covid. In Victoria just a few weeks ago, people in country towns were spewing the same cracked logic. One publican even opened his pub and finished up with about $30,000 in fines.

However, within about three days five or six country towns, most a long way from Melbourne went down with infections. Mildura was testing thousands, and were able to knock the virus down. Shepparton are currently doing the same. In NSW Dubbo went into lockdown, I think yesterday, and from the Mayor's comments of the cooperation from all residents, will probably knockdown the infected cases in their city too. Just look how fast it got from Brisbane up the coast to Cairns.

By locking down a State for a short time the movement of the virus is stopped, the contact tracing identifies the method the virus is using and the Health Authorities can lift the lockdown, and just chase the carriers. The biggest threat to country people up the east coast is young people such as teachers and nurses going home from the Cities to the country for the wekend. They can finish a shift at 4 pm in Melbourne and be parked outside a pub having dinner in South Australia at 8:30 pm go to a part on Saturday night, back Sunday for work having lunch in Camperdown, having infected  5 or 6 people in country Victoria who in turn multiply that to about a dozen cases before the first person feels sick enough to get tested. There was the NT FIFO case - someone flew out to a mine in north central NT infected. The other shift flew out to various states the next day infected. One flew to his family in Adelaide infected, felt sick tested and the whole family self isolated, and saved South Australia from an outbreak. I'm living in the city, but by sticking within the 5 km limit, we shop at the one supermarket, service station, medical clinic etc. and get warnings if sites are infected, so by social distancing, hand sanitation, and seeing out the lockdowns, we're probably safer than country people who have a steady flow of expats and strangers into the district, or even talk over the fence without masks.

[jackc]

15 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

As soon as someone starts talking about the "China Virus or US social media gossip" it's a sure sign to disregard every fruitloop statement made.

The internet these days allows us to get every single fact a US citizen gets, from some of the best medical facilities in the world. There is absolutely no point in collecting the thoughts of every academic who figures he or she has a better handle on what has happened or might happen next compared to a facilities employing several thousand qualified professionals.

 

Let me say that as a subscriber to the New England Journal of Medicine for the last 8 years,  I have access to a lot of information that people from the Facebook Journal of Medicine done get 🙂 

I do research work for a GP at medical practice I attend, time they don’t have.

My Oncologist gave me the referral to the NEJM so I could join.

I have selected subjects I research and an an interest in COVID.  I take with a grain of salt the findings published in mainstream media and social media

[turboplanner]

1 minute ago, jackc said:

Let me say that as a subscriber to the New England Journal of Medicine for the last 8 years,  I have access to a lot of information that people from the Facebook Journal of Medicine done get 🙂 

I do research work for a GP at medical practice I attend, time they don’t have.

My Oncologist gave me the referral to the NEJM so I could join.

I have selected subjects I research and an an interest in COVID.  I take with a grain of salt the findings published in mainstream media and social media

That's good to hear; I was trying to educate someone else fixated on the "Chinavirus"

[jackc]

6 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

That's not correct, particularly with the Delta strain of Covid. In Victoria just a few weeks ago, people in country towns were spewing the same cracked logic. One publican even opened his pub and finished up with about $30,000 in fines.

However, within about three days five or six country towns, most a long way from Melbourne went down with infections. Mildura was testing thousands, and were able to knock the virus down. Shepparton are currently doing the same. In NSW Dubbo went into lockdown, I think yesterday, and from the Mayor's comments of the cooperation from all residents, will probably knockdown the infected cases in their city too. Just look how fast it got from Brisbane up the coast to Cairns.

By locking down a State for a short time the movement of the virus is stopped, the contact tracing identifies the method the virus is using and the Health Authorities can lift the lockdown, and just chase the carriers. The biggest threat to country people up the east coast is young people such as teachers and nurses going home from the Cities to the country for the wekend. They can finish a shift at 4 pm in Melbourne and be parked outside a pub having dinner in South Australia at 8:30 pm go to a part on Saturday night, back Sunday for work having lunch in Camperdown, having infected  5 or 6 people in country Victoria who in turn multiply that to about a dozen cases before the first person feels sick enough to get tested. There was the NT FIFO case - someone flew out to a mine in north central NT infected. The other shift flew out to various states the next day infected. One flew to his family in Adelaide infected, felt sick tested and the whole family self isolated, and saved South Australia from an outbreak. I'm living in the city, but by sticking within the 5 km limit, we shop at the one supermarket, service station, medical clinic etc. and get warnings if sites are infected, so by social distancing, hand sanitation, and seeing out the lockdowns, we're probably safer than country people who have a steady flow of expats and strangers into the district, or even talk over the fence without masks.

The infection spread because people fled the city and spread it to rural areas, when they should have limited travel even when not in lockdown.

Consequently the rural areas now suffer, people will say you can’t prevent people from travelling for no reason, and they are right.  But, it comes back to personal responsibility, to modify how they lead their lives, throw caution to the wind and it will spread.  Our household has changed many things to ensure minimal exposure to potential infection.  If I have to do a trip anywhere, I carry sufficient fuel for the whole trip, take my own food for the trip and camp in my vehicle in the bush.  My only association with human beings is to carry out the purpose of the trip and go home.   

I store  fuel here that is bought from a village petrol station, not a mainstream city one.  The good part is I don’t get to see many human beings nowadays, what’s not to like 🙂

[turboplanner]

8 minutes ago, jackc said:

The infection spread because people fled the city and spread it to rural areas, when they should have limited travel even when not in lockdown.

Consequently the rural areas now suffer, people will say you can’t prevent people from travelling for no reason, and they are right.  But, it comes back to personal responsibility, to modify how they lead their lives, throw caution to the wind and it will spread.  Our household has changed many things to ensure minimal exposure to potential infection.  If I have to do a trip anywhere, I carry sufficient fuel for the whole trip, take my own food for the trip and camp in my vehicle in the bush.  My only association with human beings is to carry out the purpose of the trip and go home.   

I store  fuel here that is bought from a village petrol station, not a mainstream city one.  The good part is I don’t get to see many human beings nowadays, what’s not to like 🙂

What you're doing reduces the risk.

There's what people can and should do to protect the country districts, but there's also what acrually happens in the community where a percentage just goes on partying, the nurses still dive home because "they wear PPE", people are still doing holiday trips, in Qld a couple of weeks ago an infected air hostess flew out to Longreach infecting passengers, then the same day infected more on the way up to somewhere like Townsville, so the infection chain can jump to anywhere in a State in hours.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yep, I didn't know she had downs. I withdraw much of my disagreement with the way the thing was handled.

 

[Flightrite]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

The infection spread because people fled the city and spread it to rural areas, when they should have limited travel even when not in lockdown.

Consequently the rural areas now suffer, people will say you can’t prevent people from travelling for no reason, and they are right.  But, it comes back to personal responsibility, to modify how they lead their lives, throw caution to the wind and it will spread.  Our household has changed many things to ensure minimal exposure to potential infection.  If I have to do a trip anywhere, I carry sufficient fuel for the whole trip, take my own food for the trip and camp in my vehicle in the bush.  My only association with human beings is to carry out the purpose of the trip and go home.   

I store  fuel here that is bought from a village petrol station, not a mainstream city one.  The good part is I don’t get to see many human beings nowadays, what’s not to like 🙂

Mate you are wasting yr time trying to convince the afraid in here, they are prolific & locked in to the fear!

Just do yr own thing as I do & wait to die which I  suspect I will in another 30 years like dear old dad did!

[Markdun]

7 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

I thought the Wiggles was an interesting case... This fat girl was afraid of the oxygen in hospital so she was likely to die instead. That sums up a lot of the anti-vaxxer stuff.

I bet that there would be stats showing that oxygen is very dangerous on mortality grounds.

Bruce, oxygen can be toxic for newborns.  My sister was working in a Sydney public hospital quite a few years ago and was called to their A&E department as she was the only trained midwife on duty at that hospital.  A pregnant women from a MVA brought into the emergency department died and tge A&E doctors delivered the infant via Caesarean section.  The infant was born alive and spontaneously breathing etc, but was a bit blue...as they usually are, but otherwise totally fine. The A&E doctors decided to give tge infant 100% oxygen...against my sister’s loud protests that it would kill the baby (but what would a nurse/midwife know).  The oxygen killed the baby and the A&E staff recorded that it was born dead.

Water can also be toxic.  Several  cyclists have died in an event that involves a long distance ride through Death Valley in the USA.  Drinking too much water to avoid dehydration was the cause..,water toxicosis.

[turboplanner]

$1.8 million in fines dished out by Police at today's freedom rally in Melbourne, over $200 arrests. Rubber bullets and tear gas fired to disperse them, probably another spreading event.

One thing I haven't seen before Vicpol have a dedicated US-style  SWAT helicopter in military colours, probably capable of dropping members on lines anywhere at very short notice.

Edited August 21, 2021 by turboplanner

[jackc]

1 minute ago, turboplanner said:

$1.8 million in fines dished out by Police at today's freedom rally in Melbourne, over $200 arrests. Rubber bullets and tear gas fired to disperse them, probably another spreading event.

One thing I haven't seen before Vicpol have a dedicated US-style  SWAT helicopter in military colours, probably capable of dropping members on lines anywhere at very short notice.

Very few of the fines will be paid, probably bind up the court system for months if not years trying to get the money.   Just add today’s effort to the ever increasing pile of unpaid fines……

Good training for the SWAT guys 🙂

The joys of living in the concrete wastelands!

[tillmanr]

I believe the unpaid fine collection is contracted out like bad debts.

[turboplanner]

15 minutes ago, tillmanr said:

I believe the unpaid fine collection is contracted out like bad debts.

Yes they are; they all say they are not going to pay the fines but the perpetrators go on number plate recognition so are easily caught up with by the Sheriffs who can move intop a house take all the valuables and sell them. You wouldn't really want to be declared a bankrupt.

[skippydiesel]

On 18/08/2021 at 6:07 AM, Flying Binghi said:

Oh!

 

I didn’t realise the British had gas chambers ?

 

 

 

 

.

They didn't the gas chamber part of later concentration camps was all German