Covid 19

[Garfly]

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Flightrite said:

I know people in similar circumstances, their hopes & dreams destroyed by the lunatics in charge! Pilots who will never get a job again flying as they are broken! I have utter disdain for the criminals called politicians & their bureaucratic stooges behind the scenes!

 

 

Sure ... it's those lunatic criminals who done it.  Them's the ones to blame!! Totally!!  Obviously!! To the scaffolds then!!

 

What is obvious is that to blame the killer-virus itself for the disaster that's come down on us (on some more heavily than others) would waste an opportunity to harvest revved-up recruits.

 

John Ruddick, Craig Kelly and Malcolm Roberts et al, reckon they're onto a winner with the Covid..  Those blokes are far from 'broken'.   At least Ruddick, is up-front about it in this (previously posted) excerpt:

 

Right-leaning politicians in New South Wales and Queensland are tapping into the frustration and economic pain of the Covid lockdowns to promote the prospect of a fresh challenge to the Liberal party at the next election.

 

John Ruddick, a former prominent member of the Liberal party in NSW, who was close to Tony Abbott, attended the weekend anti-lockdown rally in Sydney and tweeted that he was fined $1,000 as a result.  //

 

“I believe 30% of voters are very unhappy with the restrictions,” he said. “If we can get 10%-15% of the vote we can win Senate seats and have an influence on policy.”

 

 

Source: The Guardian.  July 27 2021.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jul/27/rightwing-australian-politicians-use-covid-lockdowns-to-promote-challenge-to-liberal-party

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Garfly

[jackc]

1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

The PHU system still appears to be manual from a quick check. This isn't an issue unless there's a big breakout. Vic managed last year's with Defence troops, but Delta is a whole new disease.

 

Yes I'm aware of Queensland's excellent work in holding down the numbers. Just 5 weeks ago we were churning out zero after zero. This afternoon we were running the numbers of potential growth at current rate vs availability of all ventilators.

 

The debacle in the southern states is two things:

1. The Delta strain which transmits way faster than previous strains.

2. This year the infections are embedded in the community so we have community transmission.

With the numbers exploding, it's the electronic data system that's allowed contact tracing to keep up with Delta and the Al Taqua and other breakouts or a few weeks ago are over, but the bushfire is still going.

Will the current vaccines cover any new strains?  Get used to life on this Earth spending the remainder of your life dealing with some strain of Covid.

The debacle rolls on.  

[octave]

2 minutes ago, jackc said:

Will the current vaccines cover any new strains?  Get used to life on this Earth spending the remainder of your life dealing with some strain of Covid.

The debacle rolls on.  

The evidence is good that at the moment the vaccines are extremely effective at preventing deaths.   It is reasonably likely that new variants will require tweaks to the vaccine just like the yearly flu vaccine.  

 

Covid hospitalizations are mainly amongst unvaccinated people. To be fair many of these people may not yet have been offered the vaccine although this is rapidly changing.

 

We are seeing less deaths given the number of infections compared to last year.  One reason for this is that older people have a higher vaccination rate.  The average age of covid patients in hospital is younger and some of those younger people are suffering serious consequences.

 

Unless the efficacy of the vaccination changes markedly we can expect that if we get a high percentage of vaccination that people will still catch covid however few will die from it.   

 

 

 

 

[jackc]

Two things need to be done, lower deaths as much as possible and get people and businesses back to work, the collateral damage to peoples lives will be ongoing for years, both financially and mentally.

Somewhere in all this is a personal responsibility to protect themselves and others in the best ways they know, don’t ever expect vaccines to be the be all, and end all, they can only be part of the overall solution.

[spacesailor]

I tried to get onto that ' my gov ' app.

Filled heaps of information, and Stopped at their request for All my banking details.

Those details are on their recods list.

Not surprising the internet fraud is out of control.

spacesailor

[Thruster88]

3 hours ago, Garfly said:

 

Skippy, I'm confused, you endorse Flighty's idea of subverting the log-in system with unreadable handwriting.  Yet nobody here has been more full-on about respect for government lockdown conditions, than you. (You fairly blew a gasket at the "contempt" of fellow aviators flying too high, with no guy in the sky as an idea of something to do. ;- )

 

Seems like a shared loathing for 21st century telephony is the common ground. But hey, even our Jack, by his own admission, brandishes an iPhone4 - the bees-knees of smartphones just a few years ago.   

 

Go-figure.  HF strikes again, I guess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was thinking the same thing Garfly. I guess everyone has a good excuse why they are different and the measures don't  apply to them.

[KRviator]

1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

There's a small percentage of Australians unfortunately who can't see the reality that many family members would have died if businesses had been left operating and Airlines still flew around the world.

Stop trying to play the emotional card, "But what if it was your mum or dad?!?" 

 

The Government has put a dollar value on Australian lives since Noah was a fullback. And they threw it right out the window for Covid, and they keep right on doing it!

 

Even if we lost the full 30,000 they thought we would at the start, that's still less than the cost of what they've done, and are doing to people and businesses, and that's purely the financial cost. (Incidentally, that cost would be "only" $150 Billion...What are we up to now in lockdown's/JobKeeper/Covid Disaster Payments/etc?!?) And that's not mentioning the heartache of missed funerals, weddings, travel the things you can't put a price on. Sydney's lockdown is costing a quarter billion dollars per day!

 

THAT'S  the reality. I didn't decide a healthy 40-year-old Aussie is worth $5.0M. The Government did, and they did it loooong before Covid was on the scene. I didn't decide a "Statistical Life Year" is worth $217,000, the Government did decades ago, and it affects everything from road funding to CAsA-issued AD's.

 

How many "Life years" have we saved with our reaction to Covid, given the original variant was predominantly fatal to those over 60 (with an ~83 years life expectancy)? How many are being saved "now" with 2/3rds of our Citizens in lockdown and millions more unable to travel without going into quarantine for two weeks, or risking losing their holiday should the border rules change mid flight?!?

 

If you don't want to take that risk - that's on you. Carry a bottle of sanitizer. Wash your hands. Wear a facemask - hell, I'll wear one too, as I think that's reasonable but I'll be damned if I should lose my career, my livelihood, my house and my family to protect you!  

 

But that's what's happening, nationwide. Personally, 11 months off work last year, 3? months off so far this border closure and if McGowan continues his populist rhetoric it'll be close to 11 months again, but we're one of the lucky ones, we both had good incomes, and the KRviatrix still has hers.

I'm rapidly reaching my tolerance level for these ongoing shenanigans and I dare say I'm not alone, it'll only take a few angrier people to start geeing up others who are in a similar boat to really cause unrest. After all, when you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose!

[red750]

Let me thow this into the ring. I receive a daily newsletter called YourLifeChoices which deals with news, finance, retirement, travel, Centrelink and a number of other pensioner/retiree subjects. This is one topic from todays newsletter

 

Urgent funds sought to prioritise research and prepare for a dementia pandemic.

 

They’re the deadly double and now a panel of global experts is urging the World Health Organization (WHO) to “urgently fast-track research on the potential impact of COVID-19 on increasing dementia rates”.

 

The Alzheimer’s Disease International (ADI), a group representing more than 100 Alzheimer’s and dementia associations globally, believes the world is unprepared for an impending wave of dementia boosted by the long-term effects of COVID infection.

 

If you would like to read the rest of the article, click here.

[jackc]

It’s called, collateral damage…….

[jackc]

Another FUBAR in the making…….

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nsw-prisons-prepared-to-release-up-to-1000-inmates-if-outbreak-worsens-20210831-p58ngm.html?fbclid=IwAR17j1VkXpXecqjtRyGTokfOrRxvB4dVlUtl4plOJF59fqI26YctK9_Q8Ig

[turboplanner]

6 hours ago, KRviator said:

Stop trying to play the emotional card, "But what if it was your mum or dad?!?" 

 

The Government has put a dollar value on Australian lives since Noah was a fullback. And they threw it right out the window for Covid, and they keep right on doing it!

 

Even if we lost the full 30,000 they thought we would at the start, that's still less than the cost of what they've done, and are doing to people and businesses, and that's purely the financial cost. (Incidentally, that cost would be "only" $150 Billion...What are we up to now in lockdown's/JobKeeper/Covid Disaster Payments/etc?!?) And that's not mentioning the heartache of missed funerals, weddings, travel the things you can't put a price on. Sydney's lockdown is costing a quarter billion dollars per day!

 

THAT'S  the reality. I didn't decide a healthy 40-year-old Aussie is worth $5.0M. The Government did, and they did it loooong before Covid was on the scene. I didn't decide a "Statistical Life Year" is worth $217,000, the Government did decades ago, and it affects everything from road funding to CAsA-issued AD's.

 

How many "Life years" have we saved with our reaction to Covid, given the original variant was predominantly fatal to those over 60 (with an ~83 years life expectancy)? How many are being saved "now" with 2/3rds of our Citizens in lockdown and millions more unable to travel without going into quarantine for two weeks, or risking losing their holiday should the border rules change mid flight?!?

 

If you don't want to take that risk - that's on you. Carry a bottle of sanitizer. Wash your hands. Wear a facemask - hell, I'll wear one too, as I think that's reasonable but I'll be damned if I should lose my career, my livelihood, my house and my family to protect you!  

 

But that's what's happening, nationwide. Personally, 11 months off work last year, 3? months off so far this border closure and if McGowan continues his populist rhetoric it'll be close to 11 months again, but we're one of the lucky ones, we both had good incomes, and the KRviatrix still has hers.

I'm rapidly reaching my tolerance level for these ongoing shenanigans and I dare say I'm not alone, it'll only take a few angrier people to start geeing up others who are in a similar boat to really cause unrest. After all, when you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose!

 

 

Well I guess we paid nothing for this, but since you misquoted my post, here are some facts explaining it.                             

The Australian prediction of 30,000 deaths you used in not correct; might suit your argumeny, but BS.

 

At the start of the Pandemic, Paul Kelly, now Chief Medical Officer of the Commonwealth predicted Australia would lose 50,000 to 150,000 people in this Pandemic.

 

Australia's actions, even with the mistakes made have allowed us to save many lives so far.

 

The Source for these figures is the Johns Hopkins University of Medicine as of 11 pm last night Australian Eastern time.

They are based on applying the deaths per 100,000 people to date to Australia's population.

This shows how many Australians would have died if we had followed the policies of those other countries, compared to our own policy.

 

Country             Cum Deaths

Australia            1032

Canada rate       18,347

USA rate             50,005

UK rate                50,837

Italy rate              54,621

Peru rate              155,588 

 

 

[jackc]

Is that all?  Not bad out of 7000 million people globally and consider over 400 people die EVERY day in Australia from one cause, or another.

 

[jackc]

9 hours ago, turboplanner said:

There's a small percentage of Australians unfortunately who can't see the reality that many family members would have died if businesses had been left operating and Airlines still flew around the world.

Until its one of YOUR family or close friends business/job etc. It’s take a minuscule chance of dying or losing the lot?  IF you are in an older age group you just can’t pick up the pieces and start again. You don’t need to fly around the World except maybe for work. those days are over and it has seen in the fact that larger aircraft are all being pensioned off.

 

[turboplanner]

17 minutes ago, jackc said:

Is that all?  Not bad out of 7000 million people globally and consider over 400 people die EVERY day in Australia from one cause, or another.

 

They aren't out of 7000 million people.

The figures are the deaths Australia would have sustained at the death RATES of those other countries.

 

We are aware that people die every day in Australia and it well may be 400 per day, however we have not been discussing deaths from al causes, we have been discussing deaths from Covid-19. Maybe this is where you're getting confused.

 

[jackc]

6 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

They aren't out of 7000 million people.

The figures are the deaths Australia would have sustained at the death RATES of those other countries.

 

We are aware that people die every day in Australia and it well may be 400 per day, however we have not been discussing deaths from al causes, we have been discussing deaths from Covid-19. Maybe this is where you're getting confused.

 

Not necessarily, Australia is the most sparsely populated continent in the World. It hard to make comparisons with other countries on the spread of a pandemic.

Covid figures like it or not are in death statistics, no one likes death but its one of the rules for coming to this earth.

[Old Koreelah]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

Not necessarily, Australia is the most sparsely populated continent in the World. It hard to make comparisons with other countries on the spread of a pandemic…

I’m tired of hearing that’s cliche; the empty spaces barely matter to this, and so many other arguments. The populated part of Australia to about the same size as Japan. 

What matters to this discussion is urban density.

[jackc]

5 minutes ago, Old Koreelah said:

I’m tired of hearing that’s cliche; the empty spaces barely matter to this, and so many other arguments. The populated part of Australia to about the same size as Japan. 

What matters to this discussion is urban density.

OK, why lockdown a whole state when nearly all the cases are in or close to a capital city which is high density population?  A blanket approach will cause more problems than it solves.   Unfortunately, IF you live in the concrete wastelands you just have to suck it up.   You live out in the middle of nowhere, why should you be subjected to the same rules? There is a big advantage in being a rural dweller in more way than one, but a lot of people like the swimming pools, flashing lights and movie stars of the city, they have to live with what comes, like everyone else.

 

[turboplanner]

36 minutes ago, jackc said:

OK, why lockdown a whole state when nearly all the cases are in or close to a capital city which is high density population?  A blanket approach will cause more problems than it solves.   Unfortunately, IF you live in the concrete wastelands you just have to suck it up.   You live out in the middle of nowhere, why should you be subjected to the same rules? There is a big advantage in being a rural dweller in more way than one, but a lot of people like the swimming pools, flashing lights and movie stars of the city, they have to live with what comes, like everyone else.

 

Do they have newspapers, wireless or movietone news where you are?

You haven't seen the reports of the Covid cases in FNQ, Longreach, Darwin,virtually all thye regional cities of Victoria, Melbourne to Mount Gambier,Penola, Bordertown, Adelaide, Barrossa valley in one vehicle, Sydney to Perth in one trip?

Or in NSW where the government sourced vaccines to rush out the the indigenous residents of the western towns, only to be beaten by the Delta strain?

 

[jackc]

The regional areas were only infected because of escapees from the concrete wastelands:-) People must have good reason to travel and maybe the ‘ring of steel’ lockdowns around cities is the only answer, no non essential travel.

OR, people need to be tested before leaving their area?

Qantas should have been testing staff in advance of going on duty.

Now Qantas and others want all staff vaccinated……maybe should have happened months ago?

People not taking personal responsibility for the spread is the main problem.

[Flightrite]

10 hours ago, KRviator said:

Stop trying to play the emotional card, "But what if it was your mum or dad?!?" 

 

The Government has put a dollar value on Australian lives since Noah was a fullback. And they threw it right out the window for Covid, and they keep right on doing it!

 

Even if we lost the full 30,000 they thought we would at the start, that's still less than the cost of what they've done, and are doing to people and businesses, and that's purely the financial cost. (Incidentally, that cost would be "only" $150 Billion...What are we up to now in lockdown's/JobKeeper/Covid Disaster Payments/etc?!?) And that's not mentioning the heartache of missed funerals, weddings, travel the things you can't put a price on. Sydney's lockdown is costing a quarter billion dollars per day!

 

THAT'S  the reality. I didn't decide a healthy 40-year-old Aussie is worth $5.0M. The Government did, and they did it loooong before Covid was on the scene. I didn't decide a "Statistical Life Year" is worth $217,000, the Government did decades ago, and it affects everything from road funding to CAsA-issued AD's.

 

How many "Life years" have we saved with our reaction to Covid, given the original variant was predominantly fatal to those over 60 (with an ~83 years life expectancy)? How many are being saved "now" with 2/3rds of our Citizens in lockdown and millions more unable to travel without going into quarantine for two weeks, or risking losing their holiday should the border rules change mid flight?!?

 

If you don't want to take that risk - that's on you. Carry a bottle of sanitizer. Wash your hands. Wear a facemask - hell, I'll wear one too, as I think that's reasonable but I'll be damned if I should lose my career, my livelihood, my house and my family to protect you!  

 

But that's what's happening, nationwide. Personally, 11 months off work last year, 3? months off so far this border closure and if McGowan continues his populist rhetoric it'll be close to 11 months again, but we're one of the lucky ones, we both had good incomes, and the KRviatrix still has hers.

I'm rapidly reaching my tolerance level for these ongoing shenanigans and I dare say I'm not alone, it'll only take a few angrier people to start geeing up others who are in a similar boat to really cause unrest. After all, when you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose!

Well said KR but sadly many just don't get it! People will fight back against the tyranny especially now grubby Andrews is heading up the class division & discrimination in this state, something that I thought I would never see in my life time in modern Australia!

[turboplanner]

3 minutes ago, jackc said:

The regional areas were only infected because of escapees from the concrete wastelands

Good,  we've finally managed to get that through.

[jackc]

20 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Good,  we've finally managed to get that through.

Well, it was not the fault of regional areas spreading it amongst themselves originally.  It’s not rocket science 🙂

[jackc]

26 minutes ago, Flightrite said:

Well said KR but sadly many just don't get it! People will fight back against the tyranny especially now grubby Andrews is heading up the class division & discrimination in this state, something that I thought I would never see in my life time in modern Australia!

Pandemic Dan, trying to sell the state to China amongst other things…….that is a pandemic he is running on his own 🙂. Sooner he is gone the better…….

 

[turboplanner]

 

34 minutes ago, Flightrite said:

Well said KR but sadly many just don't get it! People will fight back against the tyranny especially now grubby Andrews is heading up the class division & discrimination in this state, something that I thought I would never see in my life time in modern Australia!

Well he's certainly aimed his cannon at you; no footy tickets, no pub entry, and a long list of prohibitions to come.

[aro]

41 minutes ago, jackc said:

People not taking personal responsibility for the spread is the main problem.

What does personal responsibility look like:

1. Get vaccinated as soon as a vaccine is available to you
2. Don't catch the disease
3. If you catch it, don't spread it

2 and 3 means stay home and don't have contact with people outside your household. If contact is unavoidable e.g. shopping, wear a mask, properly - well fitting and covering from above your nose to below your chin.

 

If all that sounds too hard, maybe we need to do more at the collective level. That was the point of getting to zero - we can all get away with not doing these things if there is no COVID circulating.