Covid 19

[kgwilson]

Love those honest government clips. I haven't commented on this thread yet so here are mine.

 

I get my 2nd AZ shot on Friday. The first gave me a mild headache for a few hours but no other effects.

 

Latest stats from the UK which has an excellent evidence based process (the NHS) unlike say the US that has a shemozzle of different evidence gathering organisations that do not have unified data collection points are:

Astra Zeneca is 92% effective against hospitalisation from the Delta variant Pfizer 96% after 2 doses, after 1 dose 70% and 94% respectively.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-30/nsw-sydney-covid-outbreak-calls-astrazeneca-explained/100334138

 

A yet to be peer reviewed Canadian study found just 1 dose of AZ provided 88% effectiveness against hospitalisation.

 

Which Vaccine?

 

The latest study published this week of the risk of blood clots from Covid vaccinations shows that there is little difference between AZ & Pfizer in terms of risk of getting clots. 

 

https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/07/29/astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-blood-clot-risk-similar-to-pfizer-spanish-study-finds

 

Patients developed blood clotting conditions after receiving the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine at a "similar" rate to those who received the Pfizer/BioNTech jab, say researchers.

A team of researchers from Spain, the UK and the Netherlands compared data from over 1.3 million people vaccinated against COVID in Catalonia, looking for evidence of blood clotting conditions that developed after they received their vaccinations.

"In this study including 1,372,213 people vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2, similar safety profiles were seen for both vaccines," the researchers wrote in their pre-print paper, which has not been peer-reviewed.

Crucially, the study authors found that people who had been infected with COVID-19 developed blood clots at a far higher rate than those who had received either of the AstraZeneca or Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines.

 

So it turns out the media hype aided by the Federal government using a dart board to determine the age at which AZ is recommended and idiot health officials, specifically Jeanette Young from Queensland carrying on like pork chop on a TV interview may not be correct after all.

 

Also we have plenty of AZ. It is manufactured here in Melbourne. The cost per dose is about $4.00 compared to $40.00 for Pfizer. AZ was developed at Oxford University using known technologies and the company has produced 3 billion doses at 25 manufacturing sites around the world and has also pledged not to make a profit from it. Pfizer on the other hand is into profiteering. Their 2nd quarter 2021 revenue is $US19.1 billion up $US9.2 billion or 92% on the previous period. I know who I'd rather support.

 

Why are people so concerned

The risk of dying is infinitely greater from Covid than the vaccine. The risk is also much higher driving to the shops or taking asprin or thousands of other things we do. The media, health officials and governments have no idea how to manage this.

 

Who gets the Flu vaccination each year & do you know its efficacy?

 

Well the facts are that 2-3000 people in Australia die annually from the Flu. The efficacy of the Flu vaccine averages around 50% as the flu virus mutates during the season so the vaccine is less so or not effective at all. In 2018 the efficacy was only 20%. BUT hardly anyone knows or cares, they still get the shot.

 

Government response and actions

 

In Australia as an island nation we have always been perfectly placed to be the so called "Gold Standard" for dealing with pandemics. Well we have screwed this up well and truly with State premiers and Scotty from marketing failing to agree on just about everything & then playing politics and making a total hash of the vaccine rollout.

The latest disaster in Sydney is not helped with large immigrant communities many of whom have a poor command of English and a culture of close family and friends groups plus dickhead anti vaxers, pandemic deniers and conspiracy theorists.

 

The gold standard is undoubtedly New Zealand with a charismatic leader who took the health advice and went hard and early & have managed to quickly squash all outbreaks since. Jacinda Adern calls the nation a team of 5 million & that is largely how they have reacted, as a team. Our lot of squabbling pollies could not organise a pissup in a brewery.

 

 

[spacesailor]

My Gripe is,

After having both shot's of vaccines, You don't ascend to any higher order of " get out of jail " than the AntiVaxers.

No ' double dose ' passport of any sort, Now or in the future ! .

spacesailor

Edited July 31, 2021 by spacesailor
spelling

[onetrack]

Spacey, you're missing the point entirely. It's not about any "get out of jail card", the vaccine is about stopping you from dying or suffering from some pretty horrendous symptoms, if you catch the COVID-19 virus.

 

The vaccine certainly doesn't stop you from catching the virus, the vaccine just prevents you from dying a horrible death from catching it. Your symptoms go down to something like getting a dose of the normal 'flu.

 

Any future major outbreaks of the COVID-19 virus will still likely see restrictions of some type. The vaccination of the majority of the population is designed to prevent total lockdowns for extended periods - as well as reducing the number of deaths and preventing an overload of the health system. In Japan, their health system is on the verge of total breakdown.

 

If Berejiklian and Barilaro had taken some serious lockdown steps early on, then NSW wouldn't be suffering with the extended lockdown it's suffering from now.

 

Here in W.A., McGowan has initiated fast and sharp lockdowns the instant the virus popped up in numbers - and those lockdowns worked. McGowans harsh treatment is something he's learnt from his military training - you don't stuff around and go soft, when a hard decision has to be made.

The problem is the same as in the army, a lot of people have weak self-discipline, so strong external discipline is the way to handle that weakness.

 

This is a new type of war we are fighting, against an invisible and cunning enemy - and it needs a military-style response - no different to how any other war affects civilians.

And in both World Wars, there was a percentage of people who didn't want to obey important directions, that "infringed on their personal freedom" - and where the obeyance of directions helped the War effort. 

When you're pushing up daisies, because you demanded your personal freedoms, doesn't seem like too clever a course of action to me.

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by onetrack

[spacesailor]

Thats my POINT.

I won't it get in my house !,  So I got vaccinated, so I at least could go Shopping. Now I'm double vax't I'm locked up like a criminal.

BUT 

Lucky me , my eldest grandson has just this minute  ( had to stop reading your forum ) dropped two bags of groceries at my doorstep, not getting too close.

( pushing up Daisies wont be that far into the future )

AND NO Bludy hugs.

spacesailor

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by spacesailor
spelling

[skippydiesel]

6 hours ago, turboplanner said:

I just want to make it clear in the light of your post above that the lockdown decisions are made by the people appointed to make them, the Chief Health officers and NOT by the State Governments. The video certainly seems to have entertained some people, along with setting off an apparent grubby politician trend, but has very little to do with Australia.

As I said before Turbs me old mate - if you dont think the grubby hand of Government(s)/politicians, is not heavily influencing its public servants, in this case Chief Medical Officer(s),  its you that's dreaming. I wish you were right on this but unfortunately, near 30 years a public servant, has convinced me you are completely naive in your position/comments. Sorry!

[Jerry_Atrick]

post deleted - was out of context (hadn't realised the thread moved on quite so far)

Edited July 31, 2021 by Jerry_Atrick

[Marty_d]

 

@Flightrite - sorry if I misunderstood you - but if you have a read of what you said, it's easy to do.

 

Kind of like "The boy helped his uncle, Jack, off a horse"  vs  "The boy helped his uncle Jack off a horse".

 

On 29/07/2021 at 5:59 PM, Flightrite said:

And when we do go back into lock down which is a certainty knowing our lunatics those that have had the jab will be right along side of me, that part I love:-)😁

 

[spacesailor]

It,s happening now !.

Some doctors are over charging None medicare patients, exorbitant fee,s for the FREE vaccination.

spacesailor

[Markdun]

Actually Skip, you are both correct.  CMOs generally (it depends on the legislation) make what is called a statutory decision, and the views or opinions of the Minister or government would be an irrelevant, and indeed improper, consideration in making the decision. If the decision is challenged in court by an aggrieved person, and again generally a person affected by the decision could commence proceedings to challenge it, a court would void the decision if such an improper consideration was made.

However, CMOs, like police commissioners, prosecutors, magistrates etc only hold office (ie. their job) at the pleasure of the Executive arm of government....they can be fired at the whim of the Premier or the PM.  This is why judges are appointed for life, including state judges if they are able to hear federal matters under the cross-vesting arrangements.  They cannot be sacked at the whim of the government.....only by both Houses of Parliament.  Therefore, Skip, you are also correct as it takes some courage for someone to go against the views of someone who has the power to sack them.

 

I’ll also chime in on kgwilson’s piece which on the whole I strongly agree with.  Two issues.  First be very wary of ‘pre-publication’ research...this was the reason behind Trump’s chloroquinine, and recently ivermectin claims.  My wife is a frequent reviewer of research articles, including the BMJ, and she gets some pretty crappy research papers.  The most common is with researchers making conclusions either not backed by their own data, or making strong assertions when statistically the data had insufficient ‘power’ to draw any conclusion other than that someone else should do a larger more controlled trial.  Second, the balance of risks is not just the risk of an adverse event from vaccination versus the risk of severe illness or death from Covid; it is the risk of adverse vaccine event vs the risk of illness or death from Covid times the risk of contracting Covid (this is the George Pell defence, although a virus does not have ‘agency’ like Pell..a small probability times a small probability gives an exceedingly small probability). This makes a huge difference, and given recent events as the risk of contracting Covid increases, it makes the case for vaccination stronger...probably a no brainer for someone living in Sydney, but an entirely different matter for a retired guy isolated at his remote rural shack next to his hanger and airstrip.  
The conspiracy theorist in me can’t help but think that Morrison and Gladys were happier for weak border controls and ineffective quarantine to increase Covid, as doing so would enable them to blame victims....it’s your fault you’re  not vaccinated, whereas the only person to blame for sloppy border control and ineffectual quarantine is Morrison (& those in the HoR who still have confidence in him). And in creating a disaster the conservatives think they will do better in the forthcoming elections.  But the rational me thinks it’s more likely that they’re  just hopelessly out of their depth, incompetent, and criminally negligent.
Yep, NZ is the gold standard.  I say we should immediately declare war on NZ, and then on the next day capitulate and surrender.  Under international law NZ would then be governing Australia. 

[turboplanner]

56 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

As I said before Turbs me old mate - if you dont think the grubby hand of Government(s)/politicians, is not heavily influencing its public servants, in this case Chief Medical Officer(s),  its you that's dreaming. I wish you were right on this but unfortunately, near 30 years a public servant, has convinced me you are completely naive in your position/comments. Sorry!

So what are the CHOs doing wrong Skippy, Tell us?

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

So what are the CHOs doing wrong Skippy, Tell us?

I have already - and its not the CHO/CMO or whatever public servant, its the team leader - in this case Scomo & his buddy Glady's.

 

The captain/team leader/director, whatever name - you chose doesnt matter. It is always the leader who gets the accolade/blame.

 

Upper echelon public servants are beholden to their political masters. They rarely utter a word (while employed) without the approval of the relevant minister or Premier/Prime Minister.

 

I am a big believer in humour being a documentary/comment on real  life - Do you recall the much loved series  "Yes Minister"  - all too true!

Edited July 31, 2021 by skippydiesel

[turboplanner]

Ah, you’re a comedian.

[cscotthendry]

At the rate we're going, Scomo's target of 80% vaccinated before we get back to “normal” looks unachievable. The anti-vaxxers are multiplying by the day and I don't understand their motives or reasoning. I do however, suspect that a very successful disruption campaign is being waged by someone via social media. In the US the choice to vaccinate or not has become highly partisan. I can see some direct actors pushing it there, but I suspect some others doing it behind the scenes as well.
Here in Oz, it doesn't have the party political flavour to it, and it could just be the effect of “If the US sniffles, we catch a cold”. But the effect is the same. The anti-vaxxers are preventing all of us from returning to any normalcy and I'm bloody angry at them for that!

[turboplanner]

1 minute ago, cscotthendry said:

At the rate we're going, Scomo's target of 80% vaccinated before we get back to “normal” looks unachievable. The anti-vaxxers are multiplying by the day and I don't understand their motives or reasoning. I do however, suspect that a very successful disruption campaign is being waged by someone via social media. In the US the choice to vaccinate or not has become highly partisan. I can see some direct actors pushing it there, but I suspect some others doing it behind the scenes as well.
Here in Oz, it doesn't have the party political flavour to it, and it could just be the effect of “If the US sniffles, we catch a cold”. But the effect is the same. The anti-vaxxers are preventing all of us from returning to any normalcy and I'm bloody angry at them for that!

In the US case the Country doesn't have the same Separation of Power that we have and Trump was initially able to derail Fauci and any other epidemiologist raising a head, and we saw state governors doing their own thing to try to stop the spread to the point where contact tracing couldn't be used and they, like the UK then opted for the next best thing, the vaccinations, and the phase we are seeing is the much slower effect of quelling by vaccination vs quelling by lockdown. It's going to be a long and costly lesson over there as inevitably someone infected drives through the no-vaxx states.

 

Australia has perfected the below the line secret political campaign where most peple don't see the campaign in action. It more or less started with the "Hawkeie's getting old and losing it" whispers to get Paul Keating elected PM, a repeat with John Howard, "kill Tony Abbott" and so on.   As much as this pandemic has nothing much to do with politicians except the water carrying, someone has managed to latch on to the anti-vaxxers with this campaign using Albo's words the "vaccination programme is a debacle". It is in terms that we all want it first and we all want it now, but around April last year the Government announced that we were on track for vaccine production, overeseas testing and TGA approval to allow a rollout starting March this year, which it did. I received a callup from my GP or a first AZ vaccination on March 31, with the second vaccination on June 23 admittedly with the advantage of living in a city. No debacle there, but that orderly process was ripped apart by the Europeans taking the Pfizer allocations, then the panic rushes overwhelming the vaccination centres, then the empty centres as we waited with bated breath for the next Astra Zeneca death to feature on National Television, the background top the person's life, the children left behind, an A Grade below the line campaign. We didn't get the ten or twenty fold rollout of TV for the aspiring takers, the four road deaths per day with associated family left behind, police telling us we had to behave better, the four medical negligence deaths per day with the follow up Current Affair segment of who forgot to take the forceps out before the wound was sewn up. We didn't even get the statistics for AZ vs the other vaccines or AZ vs no vaccine, just those haunting scenes of the toung mother no longer with us - vintage below the line. Who's pushing it; hard to tell except there's a stack of money to be made if everyone goes back to work, the international borders are eopened up and whoever dies, dies.

[red750]

What else is there to say?

 

 

[aro]

21 hours ago, turboplanner said:

I just want to make it clear in the light of your post above that the lockdown decisions are made by the people appointed to make them, the Chief Health officers and NOT by the State Governments.

The lock downs might be under the authority of the CHOs, and recommended by the CHOs, but regardless of where the legal authority lies you can guarantee the decisions are made by the governments.

 

If the CHOs were making the decisions there would be much less variation from state to state. They would follow what has been proven to work rather than reflect the politics of the leaders.

 

The body language of Kerry Chant in one of the Sydney press conferences has been commented on widely - it was pretty clear that she did not agree with what was being announced, despite being named as the person responsible.

[Marty_d]

13 minutes ago, red750 said:

What else is there to say?

 

 

Just one more thing to say -

 

Alabama:  very Republican, heavy Trump support

Vermont:  Democrat.

 

[aro]

2 hours ago, cscotthendry said:

I do however, suspect that a very successful disruption campaign is being waged by someone via social media.

It appears that there has been a Russian PR firm paying people to post antivax stuff on social media:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-57928647

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/26/influencers-offered-money-pfizer-discredit-russia/

[turboplanner]

 

36 minutes ago, aro said:

The lock downs might be under the authority of the CHOs, and recommended by the CHOs, but regardless of where the legal authority lies you can guarantee the decisions are made by the governments.

 

If the CHOs were making the decisions there would be much less variation from state to state. They would follow what has been proven to work rather than reflect the politics of the leaders.

 

The body language of Kerry Chant in one of the Sydney press conferences has been commented on widely - it was pretty clear that she did not agree with what was being announced, despite being named as the person responsible.

No doubt when the CHO and staff sit down with the Cabinet and say, Tomorrow at 11:49 pm the State is going to do this, there would be emotional politicians on the other side of the table saying "Impossible, you must be crazy" or whatever politicians do, and no doubt a CHO might waver. However, here on this site it would be a big breakthrough in some quarters if everyone understood that Scomo does not have the power to stick out his tongue like a gecko and pull in the RFS Commander of NSW when there's a busfire going, or a CHO when there's a pandemic. If we understand how the system is designed to work and who has the power and who doesn't that's a good start.

Offsetting your Kerry Chant story the Victorian Health Minister a few days ago when Melbourne was about to open up, could have said "Yes, Go ahead" when a journalist suggested a good idea. Instead his body language said yes and his mouth said "We'll be taking the CHO advice on that one, but it's quite possible.

 

Fortunately in Victoria, we've had good proof that the decisions are not made by governments as you suggest, when in investiagtive journalist from the Age was allowed free access inside the Department of Health and Human Services, and wasn't that an eye opener. The CHO is certainly the front man, but the Department, having been trapped by that long lockdown last year was rapidly changed to a decentralised configuration, bringing in sotware specialists, and sending their brightest stars out into the suburbs where the spread was starting, so they could start swatting down outbreaks in a fraction of the time of the old vertically integrated paper driven DHHS. I've seen a lot of corporate changes, and this would have to have been one of the fastest and best Australia has seen. The results have reflected the changes. Within Victoria Barwon Health have knocked down outbreaks in Colac and Geelong that I'm aware of.

 

The variations from State to State reflect the State Departments of Health in action within their State as we would expect.  The CHOs do have a panel coordinating some information, but things are probably happening too fast for the Commonwealth's CMO led team to form Australia-wide policies. With the results Australia is getting that wouldn't be high on the agenda anyway, just a lot of Health people doing a stunning job all round the country.

Edited July 31, 2021 by turboplanner

[skippydiesel]

All credit to you Turbs, you stick to your guns and make a good argument.

Sadly I just dont think there is the degree of separation, you suggest, between the CHO's and their political masters.

You comparison with the bush fires does not really apply - Bushfires are a dramatic visual drama, the fast moving front, smoke, lights/sirens, shocked  evacuee, burnt livestock & fleeing wildlife, all make for a situation where a CIC must be given a free hand, that is until the drama subsides somewhat and the polies want a photo shoot/sound grab. Much of bushfire reporting is after the fact.

 

CV19 certainly has its dramas but they are mostly played out in the within the confines of a hospital  and only really become public when we have an illegal demo. The whole "atmosphere" is quite different as is the visual image, allowing polies, talking heads of all persuasions and general commentary (like mine & yours) to evolve, hit the media, all while the health emergency is going through its phases. This allows the politician's to be lobbied by vested interests/pressure groups, many of whom are only interested in money. Sooo the polies go the the health officials and say how can we minimise the impact of this lockdown you propose, to see how it pans out, limit the lockdown of a voluntary stay home in a suburb or two, etc etc. I have no doubt that the health officials , being scientists, are giving good advise which then is "shandied" by the political imperatives (pandering to the dollar).

[turboplanner]

46 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

All credit to you Turbs, you stick to your guns and make a good argument.

Sadly I just dont think there is the degree of separation, you suggest, between the CHO's and their political masters.

You comparison with the bush fires does not really apply - Bushfires are a dramatic visual drama, the fast moving front, smoke, lights/sirens, shocked  evacuee, burnt livestock & fleeing wildlife, all make for a situation where a CIC must be given a free hand, that is until the drama subsides somewhat and the polies want a photo shoot/sound grab. Much of bushfire reporting is after the fact.

 

CV19 certainly has its dramas but they are mostly played out in the within the confines of a hospital  and only really become public when we have an illegal demo. The whole "atmosphere" is quite different as is the visual image, allowing polies, talking heads of all persuasions and general commentary (like mine & yours) to evolve, hit the media, all while the health emergency is going through its phases. This allows the politician's to be lobbied by vested interests/pressure groups, many of whom are only interested in money. Sooo the polies go the the health officials and say how can we minimise the impact of this lockdown you propose, to see how it pans out, limit the lockdown of a voluntary stay home in a suburb or two, etc etc. I have no doubt that the health officials , being scientists, are giving good advise which then is "shandied" by the political imperatives (pandering to the dollar).

Re the bush fires; I seem to remember a massive campaign to paint Scott Morrison in a negative light when he was on holidays in Hawaii, scream that he should have been holding the No 1 hose, when he was in fact several steps removed from a Qld, NSW, Vic. SA fire truck.

 

The coffee shops, pubs, and some employer groups have been relentless in the media calling for lockdowns to end and people to get back to work, and the Victorian Liberal Opposition has torn itself to pieces with the same hostile messages to the point where it's leader is still in place because the Covid restrictions in the Parliament don't permit enough people in a meeting to oust him, and while their antics play out in the daily media the Health people just ignore it. Whether there is any shandying is up to sleuths like you to find out Skippy. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

On 31/07/2021 at 2:25 AM, turboplanner said:

I just want to make it clear in the light of your post above that the lockdown decisions are made by the people appointed to make them, the Chief Health officers and NOT by the State Governments. The video certainly seems to have entertained some people, along with setting off an apparent grubby politician trend, but has very little to do with Australia.

I don't think this is entirely accurate as state of emergency laws vary from state to state. I am not going to  read all the laws, but the Victorian Public Health and Wellbeing seems to give at least some direct powers to the CHO (https://www.emv.vic.gov.au/fact-sheet-states-of-emergency-under-victorian-law), whereas in NSW, under the Public Health Act, it appears the state health minister has the power (https://justiceconnect.org.au/resources/how-the-new-south-wales-governments-emergency-restrictions-on-covid-19-work/).

 

 

21 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

As I said before Turbs me old mate - if you dont think the grubby hand of Government(s)/politicians, is not heavily influencing its public servants, in this case Chief Medical Officer(s),  its you that's dreaming. I wish you were right on this but unfortunately, near 30 years a public servant, has convinced me you are completely naive in your position/comments. Sorry!

Although my time in both the Victorian and Australian Public service (both permanent and consulting capacity) is far less, I did witness first hand some of the grubbiness with both the senior public servants and pollies, which played out. It was not too different to the same in the private sector, to be honest.

 

18 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

I have already - and its not the CHO/CMO or whatever public servant, its the team leader - in this case Scomo & his buddy Glady's.

 

The captain/team leader/director, whatever name - you chose doesnt matter. It is always the leader who gets the accolade/blame.

 

Upper echelon public servants are beholden to their political masters. They rarely utter a word (while employed) without the approval of the relevant minister or Premier/Prime Minister.

 

I am a big believer in humour being a documentary/comment on real  life - Do you recall the much loved series  "Yes Minister"  - all too true!

Defo..

 

6 hours ago, aro said:

The lock downs might be under the authority of the CHOs, and recommended by the CHOs, but regardless of where the legal authority lies you can guarantee the decisions are made by the governments.

 

If the CHOs were making the decisions there would be much less variation from state to state. They would follow what has been proven to work rather than reflect the politics of the leaders.

 

The body language of Kerry Chant in one of the Sydney press conferences has been commented on widely - it was pretty clear that she did not agree with what was being announced, despite being named as the person responsible.

Yes... and the difference in the powers accorded under NSW law is probably why. I was watching a snippet (I think on Media Watch) of one of the press conferences, she was uncomfortably saying one of the reasons for the delay in lockdown was she observed while driving her car people voluntarily wearing masks and observing social distancing - doing the right thing - and therefore didn't feel the need for lockdown. That may be true, but I doubt it. If it were true, you would want her out of that job ASAP as she has admitted two things; first she drew conclusions from anecdotal rather than empirical  observations/evidence; second, if using a population sample to work out what is going on, it should be purely random to mitigate bias risk. I could be wrong but I am guessing the suburbs and areas she was driving around are not representative of the wider Sydney communities.. just a hunch... so her observations would have been filled with bias.

 

Also, Gladys has admitted in press conferences that the government took advice from both the science and business. This underscores, in NSW at least, it is not the CHO calling the shots...  And some independent journos are claiming the business advice is at loggerheads to the science advice, and assert the business advice won (at least in the early stages)... If that is true, ironically, the businesses are suffering more now.

 

5 hours ago, turboplanner said:

 

<snip>

Offsetting your Kerry Chant story the Victorian Health Minister a few days ago when Melbourne was about to open up, could have said "Yes, Go ahead" when a journalist suggested a good idea. Instead his body language said yes and his mouth said "We'll be taking the CHO advice on that one, but it's quite possible.

 

Fortunately in Victoria, we've had good proof that the decisions are not made by governments as you suggest, when in investiagtive journalist from the Age was allowed free access inside the Department of Health and Human Services, and wasn't that an eye opener. The CHO is certainly the front man, but the Department, having been trapped by that long lockdown last year was rapidly changed to a decentralised configuration, bringing in sotware specialists, and sending their brightest stars out into the suburbs where the spread was starting, so they could start swatting down outbreaks in a fraction of the time of the old vertically integrated paper driven DHHS. I've seen a lot of corporate changes, and this would have to have been one of the fastest and best Australia has seen. The results have reflected the changes. Within Victoria Barwon Health have knocked down outbreaks in Colac and Geelong that I'm aware of.

 

The variations from State to State reflect the State Departments of Health in action within their State as we would expect.  The CHOs do have a panel coordinating some information, but things are probably happening too fast for the Commonwealth's CMO led team to form Australia-wide policies. With the results Australia is getting that wouldn't be high on the agenda anyway, just a lot of Health people doing a stunning job all round the country.

Agree, but it would appear the difference is that the CHO in Vic has power to fix the situation where in NSW, it seems the CHO has only advisory capacity to the Minister of Health. And once a minister holds the decision, many non-science factors come into it.

 

The reality is that it is the pollies who facilitate the power anyway - the state of emergency has to be declared, have a shelf-life and be renewed. There has to be political will to ensure appropriate enforcement of whatever is decided to hold people to account when they breach it. Even in Vic, if the CHO made all these restrictions but it wasn't backed up by enforcement, it would mean nothing. "Chaiman" Dan was resolute in his support for the CHO and, with hiccups, it got the job done. Without that resolute support, the dissent would have been higher and harder to manage.

 

None of this, however, changes the fact that the evidence of what is happening is a slap in the face/egg on the face of anti-vaxxers/lockdowners conspiracy theories.. Aus will get to its critical mass of vaccinations, and those that don't will have practical restrictions placed upon them; some may be government/legal restrictions, but I would guess most will be placed on them based on commercial interests.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Jerry_Atrick

[onetrack]

Just wait until the anti-vaxxer protesters find out they can't attend their favorite team game, because they aren't vaccinated .......  

[red750]

Move over Delta, here comes Lambda.

[danny_galaga]