Avgas hose

[NT5224]

Hi folks I've just been looking around at Avgas hose online. They're asking $150/m!!!😱

 

Anybody know know where I can get it at a more reasonable price or another type of hose that could be used to safely carry Avgas?

 

Just used for pumping from drums Would like about 8-10m.

 

Cheers

 

Alan 

 

Cheers

[skippydiesel]

What ID are you after?

 

I stand to be corrected, but AvGas is the same as MoGas/ULP when it comes to reticulating petrol. Of course if you asked for AvGas hose, you would likely be paying a premium for the Av bit.

[Flightrite]

just about any medium material could be used to transfer petrol, imagine the amount of petrol that gets moved around in backyard operations? Must be astronomical! It all boils down to longevity. Ive used plastic tubing for many years to move petrol, it's for sale as such at many places!

Edited August 6, 2021 by Flightrite

[KRviator]

Scintex have quite a few options, including ready-to-run hose reels and trigger nozzles. 1" 'pump discharge hose' (don't say ID/OD) is $15.50/m and suitable for ULP.

[skippydiesel]

3 hours ago, NT5224 said:

..................................................................

 

Just used for pumping from drums Would like about 8-10m.

 

Cheers

 

Alan 

 

Cheers

Alan - how big are the drums?

 

More importantly how many liters will you want to deliver to fill your aircraft ?

 

I use a home made, 12 V transfer pump, that would pump out of almost anything with the appropriate length pick up. My design will deliver about 5L /min +  through a 10mm ID fuel line

[walrus]

Flightrite and others…….you do know that you are asking for trouble if you don’t use a hose with a conductive lining? You can get away with plastic with mogas sometimes because the impurities make it conductive so charge can leak away.

 

‘’But a cold morning, clean Avgas and no earth connections?

[skippydiesel]

8 minutes ago, walrus said:

Flightrite and others…….you do know that you are asking for trouble if you don’t use a hose with a conductive lining? You can get away with plastic with mogas sometimes because the impurities make it conductive so charge can leak away.

 

‘’But a cold morning, clean Avgas and no earth connections?

What conductive "impurities" exist in MoGas????

 

"Conductive Lining" -  You may have a point but I have been using my system for about the last 5-7 years without any problem - plastic 20L fuel container (Bunnings Aerospace) on floor/ground, earth lead fitted & used ( bit  of a token).

 

In my ill informed opinion what maters most is having;

• Petrol rated/flash resistant pump
• Battery connections made befor/after fueling 
• Minimal connections/electrical joints
• All connections and switch sealed.
• ON/Of switch held in hand, away from fill point
• Your fuel exit/spout, in a fuel vapour rich environment (very close to delivery point) minimising chance of an ignitable air:fuel ratio existing.
• Plenty of fresh air

[onetrack]

Alan - Pay a visit to the company in the link below, they should be able to sort out your needs at a more reasonable price than $150 a Metre!

 

Ask for drum pump fuel hose, and specify it is purely for petrol transfer. Hose designed for diesel use is not satisfactory for petrol.

 

Transfer hose does not require a pressure rating, I think you were quoted for avgas pressure delivery hose.

 

https://www.hosepower.com.au/products

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by onetrack

[walrus]

Skippy, the danger is usually static electricity. There are usually traces of other products (eg ethanol) plus a little water, rust and dirt in mogas that make it conductive enough for static charge to leak away. The dangerous one is jet A1 which is so clean and has a high dielectric constant that it sparks unless it has an anti static additive..

 

‘’I use a Bunnings aerospace jiggle siphon and a jerry can myself. The funnel I sometimes use is conductive.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

 

Jet A: Never had anything to do with it, unless you count being a passenger on a commercial aircraft and getting an occasional whiff burning kero. I always thought that Jet A was kerosene/diesel - very high flash point - almost impossible to ignite from static spark ????

[walrus]

I thought the same…..but apparently not. BTW, treat jet A1 with respect! I had about 30litres given to me and I decided to use some of it to start a wood fire……

 

‘The bill for a new umbrella and a set of outdoor seat cushions was over $1000. It ignites and flashes over like petrol! It most definitely is not as benign as diesel!  I almost burned the deck out with half a litre - beware!

[Flightrite]

Avtur or kero (much the same thing) is pretty benign in most circumstances and far safer to handle & transport than Avgas/petrol. Ive been in & around Avtur for over 40 years inc handling it at the bulk storage level to too many hours to remember at the usage level, I consider it a very safe flammable liquid with having some basic knowledge of it's dangers.

[onetrack]

Walrus, are you sure you received pure Jet-A1? Unless you received it from a secure and certified source, I'd have to opine you possibly received a mixture of fuel with other volatile ingredients added.

 

Could you say for sure that no-one threw some waste solvent into the Jet-A1 that was "being discarded"? Once secure fuel supply control is lost, you're on your own.

 

People get caught cutting open fuel and oil drums. I once caught my elderly workshop neighbour (a truck mechanic who had downsized to working on cars), cutting open a 200 litre oil drum with his oxy-acetylene outfit!

 

I went ballistic at him, asking if he wanted to kill himself!? He was very blase and self-confident and claimed, that - A: the drum only ever contained oil - and B: he was the only one who worked in his workshop.

 

But his firm belief in B was faulty. He often had numerous mates who visited him in the afternoons, and they sat around BS-ing and drinking booze - and doing odd jobs.

 

Who could say for sure, that not a one of those mates hadn't thrown a bit of petrol or waste solvent into that old empty oil drum?

 

I've known two blokes killed by drums by having drums they were cutting open, explode on them - and a third bloke very seriously injured, by the same exercise.

 

All of them believed the drums contents were known to them, and the contents were non-flammable. Unfortunately, in all 3 cases, the exact opposite was true.

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, walrus said:

I thought the same…..but apparently not. BTW, treat jet A1 with respect! I had about 30litres given to me and I decided to use some of it to start a wood fire……

 

‘The bill for a new umbrella and a set of outdoor seat cushions was over $1000. It ignites and flashes over like petrol! It most definitely is not as benign as diesel!  I almost burned the deck out with half a litre - beware!

Well , as a kid we had kero stoves, fridges, emergency Tilly & Hurricane lamps.

 

To meet the fashion demands of the day I wanted to accelerate the fade on a pair of jeans (remember that?).

 

Went out to the laundry, filled the copper with water, set the fire underneath and waited for it to boil.

Fire was not doing the job/to slow to get going.

With the impatience of youth I splashed kero over it. Thick white smoke (so much for volatility) filled the laundry.

What to do?

Numskull here bent down and commenced blowing. Took a few good breaths and then..... CABAM!!! Just about blew me out of the laundry. Burnt my face & chest, removed my eyebrows and gave me temporary premature frontal baldness. Nothing serious and I got a tongue lashing from the oldies. Jeans came up great - looked at least 10 years old.

 

Sooo my understanding of the situation was/is - kero application - insufficient heat/flame to ignite - blowing (forced air/draft) changed both air: fuel ratio and possibly got a bit more of a flame going - white smoke/fumes reached perfect air:fuel/temperature for an explosive burn.

 

Deduction: Kerosene takes a fair bit to get it to ignite - this is unlikely to occur from a static (or any) spark. Note Aviation Kerosene may react differently - no idea)

[Flightrite]

Flash point of Avtur/kero in it's basic form is around 38degC. During fire fighting drills we had Avtur in a shallow drum with some rags, on a cold day you needed a blow torch to get it to go whoomph! Avgas/petrol however is a diff story.

I treat all flammable liquids with the same safety level.

[onetrack]

It's the vapour that's destructive - and more so when it's confined in an enclosed area. Too many people have suffered from serious burns just "chucking a bit of kero/diesel/petrol on the fire". A small amount of fuel makes for a large volume of vapour.

 

Dad often told us a story of refuelling an old 1920's Dodge tourer in the mid-1930's in the Murchison (W.A.) station country of W.A., from the common 4-gallon (18 litre) fuel tins of the day. One bloke pierced the tin and started pouring the petrol into the tank, while the other blokes "stepped away" about 20-25 metres, to have a smoke and stretch their legs. It was evening and a reasonably strong breeze was blowing - from the bloke pouring the petrol, to the blokes smoking.

 

Dad told us how he saw the flame front go from one of the blokes that lit up a smoke, back along the vapour trail on the wind, to the bloke doing the petrol pouring - whereupon the petrol went up.

Fortunately, the bloke doing the pouring was quick thinking, he threw the fuel tin away, and clapped his hands over the tank filler neck, whereby the flames from it, went out. 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by onetrack

[NT5224]

Hi folks.

 

This discussion has been most informative despite the contradictory opinions.

 

One track. Yes I have been to hosepower and they quoted me $100 bucks/metre for avgas hose (regular not high pressure). Thats why I was asking about alternatives. My main concern about using ULP hose was degradation of the material contaminating the fuel ( and my engine!). I hadn't actually thought of the fire risk arising from different hoses.

 

I refuel from  200 L drums using a hand pump.

 

My aircraft can take the full 200L  if fuelling from empty.

 

I'll take from this discussion that I can use regular ULP hose for refuelling with my hand pump. But how can I best earth my aircraft while doing so? I have a metal aircraft and just refuel in the open on my dirt strip apron. Drums are kept in the shade under a purpose built car port away from the hangar.

 

Cheers

 

Alan 

 

 

 

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Its probably overkill but you could drive a pipe/picket into the ground (preferably where moisture concentrated). Run a cable, from the picket to the drum being used, clip on to drum with HD alligator clamp/clip. From drum to aircraft earth point (exhaust pipe if no dedicated earth point.)

[Thruster88]

When I was flying the thruster more regularly and refueling from a 200l drum with drum pump hose I ran a wire grounded to the  nozzle plus a clip for the airframe and then back to the drum sitting on the ground.

[onetrack]

Alan, that Hosepower mob are having a lend of you. The crowd in the link below will sell you high temperature, multipurpose Australian-made Barfell hose, which has a high resistance to many chemicals, including biodiesel and other hydrocarbons and solvents.

 

$99 will get you 5M of this hose in 25mm diameter - plus $9.85 in freight cost. If you order some other item and your order goes over $100, you get free shipping.

 

https://www.valvewarehouseaustralia.com.au/product/high-temperature-multi-purpose-rubber-hose/?attribute_pa_size=25mm-1&attribute_pa_length=5m

[Bosi72]

On 07/08/2021 at 5:54 PM, NT5224 said:

But how can I best earth my aircraft while doing so? I have a metal aircraft and just refuel in the open on my dirt strip apron

Maybe this could help. 

https://www.bunnings.com.au/deta-earth-rod_p4430624

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, Bosi72 said:

Maybe this could help. 

https://www.bunnings.com.au/deta-earth-rod_p4430624

Ha ha! good old Bunnings reinvented the bit of gal pipe driven into the ground.

 

Already suggested - "Its probably overkill but you could drive a pipe/picket into the ground (preferably where moisture concentrated). Run a cable, from the picket to the drum being used, clip on to drum with HD alligator clamp/clip. From drum to aircraft earth point (exhaust pipe if no dedicated earth point.)

Edited August 13, 2021 by skippydiesel

[Flying Binghi]

On 07/08/2021 at 5:54 PM, NT5224 said:

Hi folks.

 

This discussion has been most informative despite the contradictory opinions.

 

One track. Yes I have been to hosepower and they quoted me $100 bucks/metre for avgas hose (regular not high pressure). Thats why I was asking about alternatives. My main concern about using ULP hose was degradation of the material contaminating the fuel ( and my engine!). I hadn't actually thought of the fire risk arising from different hoses.

 

I refuel from  200 L drums using a hand pump.

 

My aircraft can take the full 200L  if fuelling from empty.

 

I'll take from this discussion that I can use regular ULP hose for refuelling with my hand pump. But how can I best earth my aircraft while doing so? I have a metal aircraft and just refuel in the open on my dirt strip apron. Drums are kept in the shade under a purpose built car port away from the hangar.

 

Cheers

 

Alan 

 

 

 

 

 

Years ago to refuel me chopper I bought a 44 drum pump that had an after pump fuel filter and an earth strap all included. If they is still available seems the go.

 

 

 

 

.

 

[skippydiesel]

4 hours ago, Flying Binghi said:

Years ago to refuel me chopper I bought a 44 drum pump that had an after pump fuel filter and an earth strap all included. If they is still available seems the go.

 

 

 

 

.

 

$$$$$$ for anything aviation related. Can do just as well with a suitable length of flexible 12 V cable and good quality "alligator" clips

[Flying Binghi]

16 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

$$$$$$ for anything aviation related. Can do just as well with a suitable length of flexible 12 V cable and good quality "alligator" clips

Yer right there..🙂

 

My ‘mine spec’ pump were bought from the local farm stuff shop. Mine spec is nearly as expensive as aviation spec..🤨 

 

 

 

 

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