Flying during Lockdown

[SGM]

OK so I am in Melbourne, in lockdown 6.0, and using Flightradar24 app I have observed various private aircraft flights around the state, typically without any regional landings.  I have also observed [xxx] Aviation Academy flights.  There are probably many more without ADS-B.

So I am aksing if you have any "friends" (no names) who may be keeping their skills current, and what approach they may be taking.

 

In my situation, it's my own aircraft, so zero other human contact would be required to fly it. 
 

I spoke to the nice lady on the Victorian COVID hotline, and she has approved with my travelling for more than 5km to undertake 'essential maintenance' on it.

Clearly the Government can't make rules for every situation but has done in some situations.. eg  Recreational fishing and boating this is permitted for up to two hours per day, within 5km of home and with only one other person (plus dependants if they cannot be left unattended). Face masks must be worn at all times unless a lawful exemption applies.

 

 

[turboplanner]

11 minutes ago, SGM said:

OK so I am in Melbourne, in lockdown 6.0, and using Flightradar24 app I have observed various private aircraft flights around the state, typically without any regional landings.  I have also observed [xxx] Aviation Academy flights.  There are probably many more without ADS-B.

So I am aksing if you have any "friends" (no names) who may be keeping their skills current, and what approach they may be taking.

 

In my situation, it's my own aircraft, so zero other human contact would be required to fly it. 
 

I spoke to the nice lady on the Victorian COVID hotline, and she has approved with my travelling for more than 5km to undertake 'essential maintenance' on it.

Clearly the Government can't make rules for every situation but has done in some situations.. eg  Recreational fishing and boating this is permitted for up to two hours per day, within 5km of home and with only one other person (plus dependants if they cannot be left unattended). Face masks must be worn at all times unless a lawful exemption applies.

 

 

We went through this last year with the standards Civid and States started making lists up which proved endless and were stopped as tighter lockdowns occurred. We now know from the Contact Tracing for Delta strains that allowing people to move through the community like you suggest is resulting in spread so those things have not been resumed. Even Essential workers have to bring their lunch to work and eat it in the car.

[SGM]

6 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

We went through this last year with the standards Civid and States started making lists up which proved endless and were stopped as tighter lockdowns occurred. We now know from the Contact Tracing for Delta strains that allowing people to move through the community like you suggest is resulting in spread so those things have not been resumed. Even Essential workers have to bring their lunch to work and eat it in the car.

It's probably more an observation (from FlightRadar) than a a suggestion. I know that people movements on roads are steadily increasing.

Personally I would have hoped any activity that results in no human contact would become tacticly or implcitly permitted, given we are likely to be in some form of restrictions for the x months it takes to get to 70/80/90% vaccination levels.
 

[red750]

I guess they figure, if you are going to do something that is "no contact", like flying your own plane, then there is the chance that you might say, "Oops, I'm low on petrol, better call in and get some." Or, "Might as well call in at 7-Eleven and pick up a litre of milk while I'm out." That's how the 7-Eleven up the road from us became a tier 2 contact site last week. Luckily, it was 7.30 am, and I was safe at home. 

[spacesailor]

They Are going to stop your day-dreams next week !. LoL

spacesailor

[skippydiesel]

The view that is suggested - OK to break quarantine because I am not coming into contact with anyone else - is just total BS - Think about the example you are setting. The more that think like this, the less likely quarantine measures will succeed. 

 

The dumb polies have lead the way on this, by making so many exemptions, for a host of activates, the rich & famous and our sporting "hero's" - but you can make a personal decision (or not) to do the right thing.

 

I live under the "training area" for Bankston/Camden/The Oaks - small aircraft activity is way down but I am ashamed of those few pilots still buzzing around - you cant display your contempt for quarantine much more publicly, than  by doing aeros over the lockdown population below. Total FW's!

[SGM]

The observation is that multiple Victorian training aircraft are in inflight in Victoria, right now, including the one from a major university (an organsiation that you would expect would take a conservative view).  Is there a "recreational flying" guidance / exemption / "understanding" that anyone has come across.

[turboplanner]

Just now, SGM said:

The observation is that multiple Victorian training aircraft are in inflight in Victoria, right now, including the one from a major university (an organsiation that you would expect would take a conservative view).  Is there a "recreational flying" guidance / exemption / "understanding" that anyone has come across.

No, Moorabbin Airport Training Area driven by around 280,000 movements in a normal year has been deserted in the Melbourne lockdowns and comes to life when they end. The area buzzes with R22s the recreational Rotax and Jab powered units are busy training and GA aircraft as well. When the lockdown starts the traffic stops and the only ones flying are Commercial flights to Gippsland and Tasmania.

[Mewp]

No recreational flying or flight training

 

Travel | Coronavirus Victoria  https://www.coronavirus.vic.gov.au/travel-restrictions

 

See very end of page. Makes it very clear

Edited August 30, 2021 by Mewp

[walrus]

So taxiing is OK?

[turboplanner]

Can I fly a plane for recreation or take a flying lesson?  

Recreational flying and flying lessons are not permitted.

[Garfly]

In NSW too?

[KRviator]

@turboplanner at least put a reference on that so you can A) prove it's true and not just someone's opinion, and B) Know what state you're referring to, because in NSW you can fly for training in NSW as it is deemed "Education that cannot be done from home". Service NSW has confirmed that.

[skippydiesel]

11 minutes ago, KRviator said:

@turboplanner at least put a reference on that so you can A) prove it's true and not just someone's opinion, and B) Know what state you're referring to, because in NSW you can fly for training in NSW as it is deemed "Education that cannot be done from home". Service NSW has confirmed that.

Well that's just one more completely idiotic ruling, to support my opinion that we dont have and have never had a proper quarantine lockdown in NSW - is it any wonder that we have been exporting our germs to the rest of the country?

[KRviator]

1 minute ago, skippydiesel said:

is it any wonder that we have been exporting our germs to the rest of the country?

So what if we have? The whole "Zero Covid" mentality is a crock of shit. It's unsustainable, uneconomical and unethical. The goal was to Flatten the curve. We did that. We tolerated lockdowns to do that. No one agreed to Zero-Covid, and the whole "Let's blame NSW for our states cases" is disingenious and only highlights their own unrealistic expectations compared to Covid reality. Look at any other highly vaccinated jurisdiction in the world. Any other jurisdiction...And look at their case numbers then convert them to a percentage of our population and see what you get - I'll give you a hint, it ain't Zero! Or even close to it...

 

I went flying last week and make no apologies for it. I have an exemption from Qld to fly up there to check out a plane for sale, and that's fine so long as I don't leave the airport, then fly direct back to NSW.

[Garfly]

 

45 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Well that's just one more completely idiotic ruling, to support my opinion that we dont have and have never had a proper quarantine lockdown in NSW - is it any wonder that we have been exporting our germs to the rest of the country?

I'm all for compliance with the science (and with the ones saddled with setting the rules) but to me, such strict interpretations of "proper quarantine"  just give ammunition to those who think it's all ridiculous and would pressure the pollies to give it away altogether.

 

Let's say you live in regional NSW near where your aircraft's kept and you go up alone to fly circuits to keep your skills sharp; how is that "exporting our germs" when driving into town to stock up at Woolies - rule wise - isn't, so much? 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Garfly

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, Garfly said:

In NSW too?

Sorry, Walrus comes from Victoria despite what his avatar says.

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, KRviator said:

@turboplanner at least put a reference on that so you can A) prove it's true and not just someone's opinion, and B) Know what state you're referring to, because in NSW you can fly for training in NSW as it is deemed "Education that cannot be done from home". Service NSW has confirmed that.

Words fail me; NSW is right on the tipping edge of an Italy situation where hospitals are at their limit and could fail.

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, KRviator said:

So what if we have? The whole "Zero Covid" mentality is a crock of shit. It's unsustainable, uneconomical and unethical. The goal was to Flatten the curve. We did that. We tolerated lockdowns to do that. No one agreed to Zero-Covid, and the whole "Let's blame NSW for our states cases" is disingenious and only highlights their own unrealistic expectations compared to Covid reality. Look at any other highly vaccinated jurisdiction in the world. Any other jurisdiction...And look at their case numbers then convert them to a percentage of our population and see what you get - I'll give you a hint, it ain't Zero! Or even close to it...

 

I went flying last week and make no apologies for it. I have an exemption from Qld to fly up there to check out a plane for sale, and that's fine so long as I don't leave the airport, then fly direct back to NSW.

One  minute your're demanding references then this. Australia is not working on Zero-Covid, but the social distancing policy combined with contact tracing has allowed us to achieve it for several months at a time. More importantly the success of our smaller States has avoided a massive overrun of their smaller hospital capacity. The result of the policy which has deveoped over time is that Australia sits about 44th in the world in terms of performance. There's no point in quoting policies we used last year because we've moved on.

Edited August 30, 2021 by turboplanner

[waraton]

News reports today talking about a hospital crisis in WA with degrees of elective surgery cancelled and increasing ramping. No capacity to deal with COVID on top of what they already have and harder to run the spin cycle on an underfunded system. 

[walrus]

Taxiing isn’t flying.

[KRviator]

24 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

One  minute your're demanding references then this. Australia is not working on Zero-Covid, but the social distancing policy combined with contact tracing has allowed us to achieve it for several months at a time. More importantly the success of our smaller States has avoided a massive overrun of their smaller hospital capacity. The result of the policy which has deveoped over time is that Australia sits about 44th in the world in terms of performance. There's no point in quoting policies we used last year because we've moved on.

Quoting what?  Zero-Covid? Look at McGowan and his "I will not accept any cases or deaths on my watch!". Source. Then there's Victorian CHO Brett Sutton just this morning, "Victoria's hope for achieving COVID-zero again has been thrown into doubt with another 73 local cases of coronavirus recorded today. Of the new cases, 52 have so far been linked to known outbreaks, with 21 mystery cases under investigation. Chief Health Officer Professor Brett Sutton today said he was hopeful case numbers would continue to stabilise due to the lockdown, noting the state was still following the aggressive suppression strategy for managing the virus." Source. 

 

Oh, then there's Queensland and their Covid Zero "Queensland is likely to reopen to the rest of Australia and stop trying to eradicate COVID-19 when its vaccination rates hit 80 per cent." Source.

 

So...Uhhh...what's that about not working on Covid-Zero? 

[turboplanner]

14 minutes ago, walrus said:

Taxiing isn’t flying.

SPOILER ALERT - VICTORIA ONLY

When you are limited to one of the family going for urgent shopping and not allowed out of your five km radius, and any other restrictions that's cold comfort if the cops do a spot check. 

[turboplanner]

18 minutes ago, KRviator said:

Quoting what?  Zero-Covid? Look at McGowan and his "I will not accept any cases or deaths on my watch!". Source. Then there's Victorian CHO Brett Sutton just this morning, "Victoria's hope for achieving COVID-zero again has been thrown into doubt with another 73 local cases of coronavirus recorded today. Of the new cases, 52 have so far been linked to known outbreaks, with 21 mystery cases under investigation. Chief Health Officer Professor Brett Sutton today said he was hopeful case numbers would continue to stabilise due to the lockdown, noting the state was still following the aggressive suppression strategy for managing the virus." Source. 

 

Oh, then there's Queensland and their Covid Zero "Queensland is likely to reopen to the rest of Australia and stop trying to eradicate COVID-19 when its vaccination rates hit 80 per cent." Source.

 

So...Uhhh...what's that about not working on Covid-Zero? 

I did explain the pattern which is not your definitive "Zero forever."   The pattern has been fast and short lock downs until the cases are known, or small enough that they will be known, then open up while the cases reach their conclusion, which drops off all the negative cases within a fortnight, during which the ones who became sick are sent to hospitals and the ones who didn't go to quarantine, and quite often there are zero cases for a few weeks, but no one, except a few, are under any doubt that numbers can flare and quickly overrun the hospitals.

 The plan being formulated by the National Cabinet allows this policy to cease when the numbers get to a point where what's left can't overrun the hospitals. At that point there will be a fixed number of people unvaccinated who are the at-risk group.  At that point your wish will probably come true unless new strains mutate.

 

 

 

[aro]

14 minutes ago, KRviator said:

Quoting what?  Zero-Covid? Look at McGowan

Look at the plan for 70 and 80% vaccination.

 

The modelling they are using says with 70% vaccination and less than optimal TTIQ (i.e. a lot of cases as they are currently experiencing in NSW) to keep the case numbers under control is likely to require:

• stringent capacity restrictions,
• group size limits,
• stay-at-home orders (except work, study, essential purposes)

at least some of the time.

 

At 80% you are still likely to require

• capacity restrictions, as in NSW 23 August 2020

With the NSW case numbers, it looks likely they will require High PHSM (no household visitors, curfew, stay-at-home orders except essential purposes & permitted work) even at 70-80% vaccinated to relieve the load on the health care system. Cases won't go down instantly - it will take weeks.

 

If you are a state that is currently at zero COVID, the 70 and 80% plans require you to shut down large segments of the economy. You can see why WA is not too keen on that. For a state like Victoria, if we can get back to zero, we can open up more than we can under the national plan. For the 6 months over last summer/autumn, we had much more freedom than we will under the national plan.

 

The point of the national plan seems to be to open up borders. I like travel as much as anyone else, but it is going to come at a big cost to other segments of the economy. It is reasonable to ask what is the rush vs. an extra couple of months for a more complete vaccine rollout? One motivation might be to start bringing in cheaper overseas workers again.