Are We Losing Interest?

[pmccarthy]

The EAA magazine always features ultralights often flown by airline pilots, the stories are inspiring. But not in Australia.

[Thruster88]

6 minutes ago, jackc said:

THIS is what we need to boost  Aviation, regulations that allow it, or a close derivative. An importer representing the product who is prepared to promote the product AND keep inventory.  Many lazy importers sit on agencies and don’t keep stock, they are mere order takers and want  to profit well from minimum work and financial  commitment. Aviation does not need those sorts of people.

Are these a possible answer?  I believe YES.

 

https://bydanjohnson.com/sponsors/u-fly-it-aerolite-103/

 

I just don't think the market is there for whatever reason. I think the fact that Jack was able to buy a nice two seat ultralight for sub 10k demonstrates that. A new thruster now would be 35k? Who would pay that?

[jackc]

Quote:

 

RAA Ltd is the Self Administering Organisation which can shape recreational flying. MOST importantly, RAA Ltd is the organisation with the responsibility of promoting recreational flying.

Yet not a comment.

 

Unquote…

 

Well it sure has not done much for me,  in fact nearly everyone I talk to rarely has a good word for RAA or CASA.  The PR from those 2 organisations is sadly lacking.

I have to say there are good people within those organisations, i guess they just keep their head down and do their job and get paid 🙂

[jackc]

1 minute ago, Thruster88 said:

I just don't think the market is there for whatever reason. I think the fact that Jack was able to buy a nice two seat ultralight for sub 10k demonstrates that. A new thruster now would be 35k? Who would pay that?

I would have in a heartbeat……sure beats the s/h Aeropup I bought for the same money and I have had to spend 9 months to make flyable after a butcherous LAME worked on it……

[dreemhi]

Whilst I don't really want to get too involved with this discussion I must admit to becoming disillusioned with flying and the probability is I will never fly again.  In my case that's as much to do with age as anything.  Having said that I look at this discussion and wonder what has happened.  I took a quick look at RAAus' annual report 2019/2020.  In there it states membership figures 2015 - 2020 which range from about 8500 in 2015 to 9500 in 2020, fairly consistent!  The number of schools declined a little, maybe suggesting declining profitability.  The number of clubs declined dramatically, maybe suggesting a lack of social interest.  The most recent indicator to me that all is not right involves the Sapphire LSA.  This Scott Winton designed aircraft, in my opinion, had the makings of a world beater and it saddens me that I never got own or even fly one but now you can buy the whole company including 3 aircraft for less than a used Jabiru.

David

[Yenn]

Ignition, I think you have a load of valid points. When I started flying I was lucky to have a load of enthusiastic flyers around me at the several clubs I was involved with. That was due to my job taking me all around the country.

I had a break from flying at one stage and when I returned the instructor who was checking me out was trying to milk me for money. That resulted in him getting sacked and another instructor immediately OKayed me after less than an hour. Sadly that sort of behaviour is too common.

I would also agree about the old blokes being less than enthusiastic, something I have tried to avoid becoming myself, in fact now when I say I am thinking of giving up flying, the youngsters are straight away trying to dissuade me.

The problem is we old blokes know it all and it has to be done our way, If we didn't think of it, then it is no good. Is that how we come across, Ignition? I hope you consider there are a few who try to help you.

[Flightrite]

That Sapphire for sale deal has been on the market for a while now, kinda says it all about the rocky industry -(

[Kenlsa]

Ignition,  I have to agree with most of what you say, but stick with it.

Our club seems to be doing ok though. We have increased our membership year on year  (320) and I think it’s coz we have a large fleet of Rec a/c (5) and gliders (7).

We have about 60 private planes on the field as well.

Rec training  days are Wednesday, Friday and Saturday and at the moment we have 60 new pilots waiting for a training spot. Ages seem to range from 15 to 50 by my reckoning.

Costs are “relatively “ low at $130/ hr. This is due to the oldies donating their flight training for free and the maintenance people service the planes for free as well.
 

Only trouble with the low cost is the high churn rate. MOST just want to tick the “yeah, I used to fly” box before finding the next thing to tick off. Their membership lapses after solo.

 

on a slightly sour note, of all the maintenance I have done over the last 5 years, I have only been thanked once…..by a mother of a gliding student…..and I don’t even look after gliders!

 

I will end this post by way of a reverse example……A few of us oldies were having morning tea to take a rest due to the heat, 38deg. Jab flights had stopped due to the heat and a young gun came to join the group. Conversation progressed to post solo flights and club activities to keep pilots (him) keen and interested.

He was disappointed that the club wasn’t doing enough.

 

I asked him what he was going to do to fix it, was he involved on any of the committees and maybe take the lead, as we were a little puffed out. He started to abuse me until I pointed out the 83year old driving the slasher in front of us. 38 degrees remember, so he had a nice airfield to fly from. The guy was never seen again at the club though I heard from a mate of his he constantly bad mouthed the club afterwards.

 

So I guess that it can come both ways.

 

NOTE, Bruce…the 83 year old was Noel Smeddley, RIP.

 

Ken

 

[FlyBoy1960]

1 hour ago, Flightrite said:

That Sapphire for sale deal has been on the market for a while now, kinda says it all about the rocky industry -(

 

No-one wants a singe seat aircraft with tiny payload and no engine manufacturers to suit the design. 

 

We are all to fat to fit these days, shame because its a lovely airplane.

 

Find a CHEAP and reliable engine, extend the payload some 30 kgs and then Steve might have a sale.

[jackc]

Soon, there won’t be many small engine options in the sub 80hp range.

With Rotax 2 strokes all but  gone, there is MZ, Polini, Hirth and maybe others I don’t know about.  Even a V twin 30hp Briggs and Stratton is available, yuk!

Rotax 912 are $30k and up.  There are some motorcycle engine derivatives being developed. 

[facthunter]

  Some of those Industrial Vee Twins are not much short of what's required, 2 strokes need bulky exhausts to develop power, Bad look and draggy..

  In Clubs the work gets left to the same people to do and the others are just users happy to complain. Never peel the onions or clean the oven. Nev

[Flightrite]

That's like all clubs, a small % of drone workers keep the club going whilst the lechers feed off their work!

Ive been to some clubs/fields where it's a lawn park & others are just cow paddocks!

Edited September 21, 2021 by Flightrite

[jackc]

2 minutes ago, Flightrite said:

That's like all clubs, a small % of drone workers keep the club going whilst the lechers feed off their work!

Ive been to some clubs/fields where it's a lawn park & others are just cow paddocks!

No different for Ham Radio clubs, the old stalwarts do the work holding the show together,  problem is we are all getting older.  Ham Radio can’t compete with Play Stations, iPads and all sorts of other instant gratification entertainment devices that the young people worship.   So Ham Radio will simply die out over time…….

I think Aviation has a lot of potential but it needs support from shakers and movers in the industry, cooperation of regulators not to impose more onerous regulation.

Every time they change something…….it’s usually for the worse.

Seems to be an ongoing battle…….. 😞 

[spacesailor]

 

jackc

Thats were the trouble is !,

Onerous regulations from ' god aspiring bureaucrats ' , nothing happens to them if people cannot get around Their lawyer-speak Laws. They would happily  ground evert pilot,  not in the airline business.

Raas, dosen t want to help their member,s incase it upsets CASA.

I don,t think we will see " part 103 " here in Australia as it is agains CASA,s mandate, ( the safest plane

doesn't,t fly ). 

To mow the airfield,   nobody will risk training a person to drive an expensive tractor.

To learn Morse code my instructor,  whistled it !, and of couse l couldn't stop laughing.

Needless to say l got the boot, but have still got my 'Morse keys ' that connect to  each other via wire & amplifier.

spacesailor

 

[skippydiesel]

Space me old mate!  You dont "drive" tractors you "operate" them. its people who think they can drive a tractor that get injured & killed. May sound a tad pedantic, the terminology differentiates the skilled operator from the whatever. Would you call a pilot, a driver,except in jest or being deliberately pointed about their poor airmanship?

[jackc]

A control stick or yoke attendant 🙂 

[KRviator]

2 hours ago, Kenlsa said:

I pointed out the 83year old driving the slasher in front of us. 38 degrees remember, so he had a nice airfield to fly from.

Having recently moved next to a small country airport - let's call it "Crumpet" because, well, "Scone" is already taken, the builder & previous owner of the house & hangar that we brought was out mowing the grass on the airport side of the fence one day, when Crumpet Council's contractor was conducting an audit of the airport.

 

Do you reckon they said "Gidday mate, 'ow ya travelling? Good to see ya taking care of things and showing an interest in keeping the grass down. Whaddave you got tucked away in ya hangar??" 

 

Nope. They wrote him up as he " ...was observed mowing the taxiway without a rotating beacon or high visibility clothing, or without any co-ordination with the ARO."

Now, bear in mind this "taxiway" was one the PO had exclusive use of, as it linked his, and only his, hangar to the threshold of Crumpet's runway, the "taxiway" wasn't much more than a bit of flattened grass, with a few gravel patches and by and large, it was closer to the perimeter fence than the gables and absolutely no threat to anything with wings unless it also had feathers...But officialdom and red tape must prevail.

Fast forward a few years and now we own the house & hangar, and Crumpet Council has provided us a new gravel taxiway as part of the Crumpet Airport upgrade, and are going to replace the perimeter fence to stop pesky kangaroo's getting on the runway. But, in another dazzling feat of red-tape and officialdom, CAsA have told Crumpet Council that we cannot taxi through the gate unless the gate is 31m wide, because, you know, an RV with a <9m wingspan is at risk of hitting something if the gate is any narrower, never minding the fact that a 4-seat Cessna has been going through the existing gate for 20 years...

 

SO what to do? Do we drag the RV-9 (or Comanche/Bonanza/182 whatever we get) from the hangar onto the taxiway with the ride-on? But then, we'll be on a taxiway without our plane-proof vest & whoopy-lights! Egad! Or do we say "My plane, my property, my gate, if I hit my gate with my plane taxiing through onto my property then I'll fix my gate and my plane myself!

 

As it is, I blithely ignore Crumpet Council's previous NCN's and happily take the ride-on & sprayer trailer out through the gate to keep the grass down around the new taxiway & spray the weeds that they seem happy to let grow. This serves two purposes, firstly it keeps the weeds out of my yards & paddocks, and secondly it just looks nicer.

It's also interesting to note, the Crumpet Aero Club weren't the ones to install 4 HD weather cameras up here, nor was it the Crumpet Council. It was a local charter operator who arranged it, and mounted them on top of one of the maintenance mobs hangar's here. I'm planning on adding a 5th one at our end of the airport overlaid with METAR or PWS data, but need to find the best one to use.

[spacesailor]

Do you " drive " or " operate your tractor.

Does Size really matter ?.

Bus driver or " coach captain ", l upset a " coach captain " by thanking the driver.

spacesailor

[turboplanner]

38 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

Do you " drive " or " operate your tractor.

Does Size really matter ?.

Bus driver or " coach captain ", l upset a " coach captain " by thanking the driver.

spacesailor

You've screwed up BIG TIME there Space; worse than a journalist typing Cessna.

Bus and Coach are two separate vehicles with two separate sets of responsibility.

[facthunter]

IF the size of the tip is big enough the term used for the recipient won't be of great concern.

 Nev

[facthunter]

I've used tractors for various purposes "Take" that tractor and spray the (whatever ) area with such and such. You do "Operate" a lot of" machinery"..   You might be referred to as a Grader driver. You are "flying" or "Piloting" a plane. Riding a bike or a horse. Cobb & Co ran a lot of Coaches  pulled by a team of horses driven by a skilled person.  Nev

[Old Koreelah]

On 19/09/2021 at 10:03 PM, rgmwa said:

…Some were surprisingly clumsy with simple hand tools, but I don't know if that's an age-related thing or the result of spending too much time in front of a computer or on their phones.  I think there were only two girls who participated (in the first year), but they were very good. They had  a good attitude and were careful and accurate in what they were doing, but had to drop out when they went on to Year 12…

A fairly bleak picture. A recall a female student who trained as a tradie in the mines. I spoke to her after she had quit and gone into the finance sector. She explained she’d been worn down by persistent harassment on the worksite. I guess these cretins couldn’t understand that this drop-dead gorgeous blonde (with a brain) really wanted to work with tools.

 

I fear the same for my granddaughters who also suffer from extreme attractiveness (didn’t get it from me). They love to help with my projects, and are learning how to operate a pick and shovel, my car, my rifle, etc. They have lots of opportunities, but I fear most kids -even in country towns- don’t.

I have urban relatives whose kids have no manual skills or interests at all.

[Flightrite]

COST, everything boils down to cost! Manufacturing is all but dead in this country hence less & less work in that 'making things field' Add to that a LOT more other brain dead pursuits (technology does have it's negatives) & we are now breeding 'feed lot cattle kids' ever reliant on handouts & other support!

I'm glad  grew up in a world were there was opportunities for the taking such as trades.

It's a different world out there these days & not all for the better either!

[spacesailor]

Do you " drive " if you State " you have driven a tractor " instead of operated a tractor ?.

A lot of my grand kids have got their Trade certificates, 

BUT

We haven,t a plumber yet !.

spacesailor

[Ignition]

On 23/09/2021 at 9:03 AM, Flightrite said:

COST, everything boils down to cost! Manufacturing is all but dead in this country hence less & less work in that 'making things field' Add to that a LOT more other brain dead pursuits (technology does have it's negatives) & we are now breeding 'feed lot cattle kids' ever reliant on handouts & other support!

I'm glad  grew up in a world were there was opportunities for the taking such as trades.

It's a different world out there these days & not all for the better either!

Tl;dr
"Am I so out of touch? Hmm.. No it is the children who are wrong" - Seymour Skinner, 1994.

Like... wow.