582 to 912

[BrendAn]

Apologys if this topic is already covered but i would like to know if a 912 can replace a 582 on a t300 or is it not allowed under certification.

Its not something i am planning to do . Just curious.

[turboplanner]

20 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

Apologys if this topic is already covered but i would like to know if a 912 can replace a 582 on a t300 or is it not allowed under certification.

Its not something i am planning to do . Just curious.

If you're seriously interested in that, call up the Airworthiness and Maintenance department at RAA Ltd.

In the long term they are the people you will be dealing with in relation to your aircraft and have the responsibility as against well meaning advice which may well apply to USA or Holland but not here.

There is some serious down to earth skill in that department,  and I'd suggest you put the question in terms of the 582 going out of production. They may already have done some work on it, but in any case sooner or later an alternative to the 582 will have to be found.

[facthunter]

The planes too draggy to get speed, but you will get off the ground and climb quicker. You don't want more weight in the nose. Nev

[jackc]

I have been told it can be done by a man who would know. I did not ask the question, I simply told him I was dropping in a new 582 complete and he mentioned it in passing.  For me a Thruster is a Thruster.......not interested in shredding the skins off it at 5000 feet trying to eek a few more knots out of it 🙂

[facthunter]

Well you get 15 more HP with the 80 HP and more weight. I've mentioned the weight above. the  80Hp Rotax is the most reliable of the range.  It would be more reliable than the 2 stroke, all other things being equal..  How reliable a 2 stroke is depends a lot on the operator, but no one pretends that reliability is a 2 stroke strong point. Nev

[jackc]

7 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Well you get 15 more HP with the 80 HP and more weight. I've mentioned the weight above. the  80Hp Rotax is the most reliable of the range.  It would be more reliable than the 2 stroke, all other things being equal..  How reliable a 2 stroke is depends a lot on the operator, but no one pretends that reliability is a 2 stroke strong point. Nev

Nev, the buck stops with me fitting a brand new 582 🙂  Could never justify $30K for a 912 at my age......not long 'til EOL.

My Aeropup has a 912 80hp in it with 350 hrs running on condition......I will die with it!

[facthunter]

Buying it new is the ONLY/BEST way to do it. You get carbs and exhaust. Power to weight is still the best.  Nev

[BrendAn]

I am not interested in going faster or anything else. Curious thats all.. whatever replaces the 582 when they bite the bullet will have to be a 4 stroke or electric.  2 strokes will be extinct.   I am sure the 582 will be around for a fair while yet . At least until the parts supply dwindles.

[BrendAn]

My observations are just that. I am not a pilot yet or plane builder . I don't want anyone to think i know what i am talking about.

[jackc]

2 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

I am not interested in going faster or anything else. Curious thats all.. whatever replaces the 582 when they bite the bullet will have to be a 4 stroke or electric.  2 strokes will be extinct.   I am sure the 582 will be around for a fair while yet . At least until the parts supply dwindles.

New ones will be harder to get next year but parts around for a long time and you will be able to get a zero timed rebuild done for about $7000 when I last checked a month ago.

In fact was even thinking when I get the new one, might sent the old one away and get it done for a spare I will probably never use 🙂 

[BrendAn]

Just now, jackc said:

New ones will be harder to get next year but parts around for a long time and you will be able to get a zero timed rebuild done for about $7000 when I last checked a month ago.

In fact was even thinking when I get the new one, might sent the old one away and get it done for a spare I will probably never use 🙂 

Thats good to know. Having a spare on the shelf is a good idea too. Wouldn't they want your old block as an exchange.

[facthunter]

I doubt there's a lot of new genuine parts for the 582. In future get about 3 of them and build up one good engine. Legal life is 300 hours but you can get double that if you look after it and don't get carbon in the ring grooves. It's not an overly stressed engine. Nearly 600cc for 65 HP.  Nev

Edited September 28, 2021 by facthunter

[jackc]

3 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

Thats good to know. Having a spare on the shelf is a good idea too. Wouldn't they want your old block as an exchange.

It’s an outright buy for everything in the crate, ready to bolt in and fly away.

 

[BrendAn]

5 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I doubt there's a lot of new genuine parts for the 582. In future get about 3 of them and build up one good engine. Legal life is 300 hours but you can get double that if you look after it and don't get carbon in the ring grooves. It's not an overly stressed engine. Nearly 600cc for 65 HP.  Nev

Good thinking.  

[jackc]

There are 70 units arriving January’22, so I have been told.  After that, who knows?

 

[facthunter]

That's the deal . They don't want your old stuff back. Some cases get pretty rough. I've seen the threaded holes in the base in bad shape. the ones that hold the motor in. Other damage is possible. . Nev

[jackc]

These guys have parts….

 

https://www.cps-parts.com/menus/rtx/parts_2_582.html

 

I hesitate to say an after market trade will start doing larger rebuild components for the engines as time goes on, but the crankshafts may be a problem?  To many of the 582s in circulation to just abandon them?

[BrendAn]

3 minutes ago, jackc said:

It’s an outright buy for everything in the crate, ready to bolt in and fly away.

 

Is that carbys and ignition as well

[facthunter]

Put the totally new one in and sell your old motor. I had one mate who did this and the motor removed at 300 hrs was still quite good. It's the cheapest and best. till they run out. . Like you have said whatcan be used when you cant buy one. That situation has existed for the 503 etc for some time now. Nev

[jackc]

1 minute ago, BrendAn said:

Is that carbys and ignition as well

Fan to firewall!

[BrendAn]

23 minutes ago, jackc said:

Fan to firewall!

Thats  cheap flying.  

[kasper]

R912 into a thruster has been done but never certified.  It’s not a pretty plane after you’ve put the engine right in the middle of the windscreen and right back against the windscreen.   It’s expensive.  It does add climb and oomph but I doubt you’ve get it passed MARAP. A you are  losing a lot of useful load with the frame needed to cradle the engine that far below the fuse tube and all testing would need to be redone - effectively a new aeroplane.  
 

if you want a four stroke look to import and get passed the jabiru powered t600 from the uk. Probably an easier bet than converting a t300 or t500

[jackc]

All that grief for another 15 horsepower 😞 

 

[facthunter]

The Jabiru is actually 85 and light. Your statement above is the reality. Just fly it. Nev

[Blueadventures]

14 hours ago, facthunter said:

I doubt there's a lot of new genuine parts for the 582. In future get about 3 of them and build up one good engine. Legal life is 300 hours but you can get double that if you look after it and don't get carbon in the ring grooves. It's not an overly stressed engine. Nearly 600cc for 65 HP.  Nev

Use the rotax specified oil in both the 2 and 4 stroke models ONLY - IMHO.