Willy airspace proposal • Call for comment.

[Old Koreelah]

15 minutes ago, Ian said:

While this is a fairly minor embuggerence…

 

A new word? An excellent addition to our vocab, particularly useful when describing bureaucratic hassles.

Quote

…did review the literature as published by ATSB and FAA relating to the incapacitation of pilots during flight which spans over 50 years, both in Australia and the US and could not find a single case of pilot incapacitation due to asthma. Heart attacks, stroke, multiple instances of food poisoning,  aerobullosis (the bends), nausea, respiratory infection etc but not asthma. I did point this out to both CASA and the specialist however to no avail.

So apparently statistics is no match for the vibe when considering risk so I duly pack an asthma puffer..

When our kid was young, our little family has had experience of severe asthma attacks and I religiously carry a Ventolin puffer in my right trouser pocket, just in case. Never needed it myself, but it’s been there at the right time for several other people.

(After she took up swimming, the kid never had asthma again; following that black line took up a lot of her time, but might have saved her life.)

[facthunter]

A bee sting can  incapacitate you once you've had a few of them and you react more.. I carry special tablets in my wallet. (Antihistamine)'

    A DC-4 freighter approaching into Archerfield crashed when the PIC had a heart attack and collapsed over the throttles forcing them closed. The Co pilot died when the plane hit a tree when it landed short of the runway subsequently.. There was no fire. Nev

[jackc]

Which raises the point……carrying a small Aid Kit in you aircraft sounds like a good ideas.   Wonder how many people do it?

[kgwilson]

I do. I have one in my car, one in the plane, a big one at home and another in my SES backpack. I am a qualified first aider with SES & we also carry a full backpack sized kit when we go out on jobs.

[Ian]

Any thoughts on the contents of a first aid kit in a plane. It might be good to look at what caused pilot incapacitation and see if the contents of a first aid kit would help. Should you have an epipen, as it's a broad spectrum treatment for a number of ailments though they're a bit difficult to get over the counter. 

 

[jackc]

I need to think what I need to add to a First Aid kit in the way of air sickness medication,  since I have been flying I have only got a bit sick a couple of times and not sure what causes it.  IF I am skipper in a boat, no problem.

 However I did a tour  boat trip to Balls Knob? when on holiday to Lord Howe Island.

Never been so sick in my life, took some over the counter pills (Quell)  Useless, sick as a dog the the whole 3 hours of start to finish. 

Bothers me IF I get turbulence while flying…….bit hard to fly and use a chuck bag!

I know I had some pretty good stuff when I got Chemotherapy for my Cancer 10 years ago……it was that good, I did not need an Aeroplane,  to fly 🙂  

[Bruce Tuncks]

Motion sickness comes from stone-age times. If your cave starts moving, your subconscious may decide that you have eaten something poisonous and make you throw it up.

Some people like me just don't have a smart subconscious and so we don't get airsick.

 

[turboplanner]

The Comment period for the proposed Williamtown airspace design is now closed. Did anyone put in a submission?

[Bruce Tuncks]

Turbs, you may remember how years ago I put in a submission about introducing a mid-step between the 4,000 ft and 8000 ft steps around adelaide. This would have had zero effect on the airlines coming into adelaide but would have greatly increased safety for those of us confined unnecessarily to 4000 ft.

I never got a reply except from you guys here. The very word "submission" says why it was treated with contempt by the govt.

[kgwilson]

14 hours ago, Ian said:

Any thoughts on the contents of a first aid kit in a plane. It might be good to look at what caused pilot incapacitation and see if the contents of a first aid kit would help. Should you have an epipen, as it's a broad spectrum treatment for a number of ailments though they're a bit difficult to get over the counter. 

 

Use of an Epipen on someone without knowledge of their health issues can be dangerous. It delivers a sharp dose of adrenaline and normally used only for sufferers of anaphylactic shock. Sufferers will be prescribed their own and First Aiders/Medics/Ambos need to make a qualified assessment before use based on the signs & symptoms if the patient is unable to communicate.

 

No first aid kit will contain everything required for any situation. Basic small kits will have a variety of bandages, non stick dressings, antiseptic cream, plasters, scissors, nitrile gloves etc. The larger the kit the more versatile but heavier and more bulky they become. A standard car glovebox kit like the Red Cross kit is lightweight and compact and relatively inexpensive. This is what I have in my aircraft.

[jackc]

Generally, an Epipen is only used by the person who may need it.  No one except well qualified medical professionals are equiped to deal with giving an unconscious or non communicative person any, medication.

I have always carried extra medication for a possible need,  when my wife an I travelled all over Southern Africa on a motorcycle, my GP loaded us up with enough different medications to bring a dead whale back to life 🙂. Stuff you would not get into or out of the country with, these days.  My wife got food poisoning in South Africa……Gastroenteritis fixed 🙂. Along with a few other maladies on our trips there.

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Turbs, you may remember how years ago I put in a submission about introducing a mid-step between the 4,000 ft and 8000 ft steps around adelaide. This would have had zero effect on the airlines coming into adelaide but would have greatly increased safety for those of us confined unnecessarily to 4000 ft.

I never got a reply except from you guys here. The very word "submission" says why it was treated with contempt by the govt.

Public submissions are not usually replied to, so you weren't singled out.

However, they are usually published and kept on the record and yours is still sitting there today for the public to see.

Submissions usually range from pro to con and are valuable to prevent things which otherwise would be missed.

In your case, as I recall, the airspace you wanted to punch through is relatively close to Adelaide Airport (in terms of RPT speeds) and is reserved as one of Adelaide Airport's holding loops so you could be hit by one coming and then one going.

Edited October 30, 2021 by turboplanner

[jackc]

Decisions are usually set in concrete WITHOUT considering submissions, they are only paying lip service to people in an effort to make them feel all warm and fuzzy.

Nothing more 😞

[KRviator]

16 hours ago, jackc said:

Which raises the point……carrying a small Aid Kit in you aircraft sounds like a good ideas.   Wonder how many people do it?

I certainly do.

I've had a first aid kit in every car I've owned since I brought my (second) car. Now I have one of those "rescue swags" in the car and another clipped to the baggage bulkhead. As well as the survival vest I wear whenever I am flying the RV, the logic behind the vest being, firstly, I fly in a plane I built in my back shed, and secondly, with the kind of luck I seem to have - I might not have enough time or be able to access the rescue swag, so the vest contains enough to (hopefully) stop anything serious enough for long enough for the PLB to summon help.

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by KRviator
Corrected photo syntax

[turboplanner]

2 minutes ago, jackc said:

Decisions are usually set in concrete WITHOUT considering submissions, they are only paying lip service to people in an effort to make them feel all warm and fuzzy.

Nothing more 😞

BS

[jackc]

1 minute ago, turboplanner said:

BS

Well, sit back and see how our air space changes by ASA go?  I will hurry up AND wait 🙂 

[jackc]

5 minutes ago, KRviator said:

I certainly do.

I've had a first aid kit in every car I've owned since I brought my (second) car. Now I have one of those "rescue swags" in the car and another clipped to the baggage bulkhead. As well as the survival vest I wear whenever I am flying the RV, the logic behind the vest being, firstly, I fly in a plane I built in my back shed, and secondly, with the kind of luck I seem to have - I might not have enough time or be able to access the rescue swag, so the vest contains enough to (hopefully) stop anything serious enough for long enough for the PLB to summon help.

 

https://live.staticflickr.com/1749/41988713105_66d21eeef2.jpg

Good looking kit 🙂. This, is my summon help device….

 

 

 

[Ian]

I did, specifically about the reduction in CTR airspace. It would have been significantly stronger with local knowledge of the terrain and the weather conditions around that area.

• as it would provide additional airspace and associated flightpaths for GA providing some mitigation against the type of accident which occurred in Coffs a few years back
• The initial study recommended a smaller CTR airspace in line with International standards
• The initial study was a joint study which Defence participated in and they couldn't provide a justification for a larger CTR.

What I suspect has happened is that Defence, while not being able to justify the existing CTR was an unwilling participant in negotiations. To comply with the recommendations they needed to reduce the CTR and the reduction from 12 to 11 was the smallest reduction that they could provide and still be seen to comply with the recommendation.

 

You also have to view the public service in the context in which is exists. There are a group of people who care and work very hard, there's a group of dead wood and there's a group who are happy to box tick and close off projects and issues regardless of the outcome simply so they can say the case it closed. The third group tend to move up in management simply because they're perceived as kinking goals (even when they're own goals).

For example the "Aeronautical Study of Coffs Harbour"  in 2010 identifies Coffs as having a population of 20,000 and being a resort town. The population is about 75000 and it has a pretty diverse industry base. It has also been filed under Tasmania.

 

 

CASA also is an acknowledged poor performer in the Federal Public Service and hopefully they can improve this status over time however they have been somewhat disinclined to remediate what ails them to this point which is disappointing. They are also at grave risk of regulatory capture as their focus is primarily on RPT and associated lobby groups.

 

However that being said I'd encourage everyone to respond to these issues and cc their local member and the minister for transport. The public service is at heart a political beast and politics is about people.

A key advantage is that flying has is that it exciting and that there are a lot of people interested in it. I'd like to see more people offering to take their local member or local council members up for a flight, it gives you the opportunity to point out the holes in the runway and show them the view that visitors to the area might get. As they say a picture speaks a thousand words.

 

Also the spelling of embuggerance wasn't quite correct, it's not  my word and seems to have come from the UK where the Government is similar enough for feelings to translate well

Edited October 30, 2021 by Ian

[KRviator]

Looks kinda like a SPOT device? Probably not a bad thing to think about for when we go 4WDing, I didn't know Big G made them, but now I do, I'll do a bit of digging and might add one to our bag of tricks for going out bush.

But...(there's always a but) such a device won't meet the ELT/PLB requirements contained in the CAR's or CASR as it has to be registered with AMSA and a couple other overly officious requirements CAsA have implemented - so don't get sprung with it! 😛

 

[jackc]

It can’t  be a substitute for ELT/PLB but it sure is handy for email/SMS messaging and tracking for your family.  I use it in the 4x4 and previously when I was a lone expedition motorcyclist.

[kgwilson]

I have a Spot Gen 3 device. It is a GPS based tracker, sends pre drafted SMS messages & emails (eg On the ground & safe, on the ground & need help) or SOS which goes via the International GEOS IERCC to the appropriate authority in the country of origin. It does not use the 406 MHz emergency signal direct as PLBs do but the result is identical.

 

Australian Emergency response don't approve Spot devices as a PLB device even though it does exactly the same thing in a different way but is also far more useful. It is also much smaller and lighter.

 

I can look up all my flights as it provides  my GPS location & altitude every 5 minutes overlaid on Google Maps. My wife can also see this in real time when I am flying as well.

 

There are other satellite messengers from Zoleo, Garmin etc that do similar. All have an annual subscription but are cheap to buy, smaller & lighter than PLBs. Spot even has a new one that has bluetooth from your mobile so you can send & receive messages via satellite as well as all the main messenger & PLB features.

[Old Koreelah]

3 hours ago, turboplanner said:

BS

Given my experience of making submissions during “public consultation” processes, Jackc’s conclusion is understandable.

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, Old Koreelah said:

Given my experience of making submissions during “public consultation” processes, Jackc’s conclusion is understandable.

He said "Decisions are usually set in concrete WITHOUT considering submissions"

That's nonsense which anyone can check just by looking at consultation history.

 

You may not have had much luck or received a specific mention,  but did anyone show you how to make a submission that would work?, ie your issue, the research of the present situation, the improvement your submission could bring etc.

 

The top priority in Controlled Airspace is the safety of paying passengers both politically and operationaly, so anything you submit that would weaken RPT safety, so if you wanted to do something different you would have to address that as Point 1, with all the points being researched, calculated and provable rather than just a list of assertions. Then the organisation holding the community consultation session is more likely to focus on the submissions similar to yours, and put the assertions, personal wants and unproven theories to the side.

[jackc]

Turbs, the only time I have had any real success with submissions is when I have submitted them in person to meetings,  I have done this with Govt Depts, Defence Depts, multi million dollar corporations both here and overseas.  

I have runs on the board for success.  

Submissions by email, letter etc have never seemed to work,  but at least when the first Airspace kerfuffle with ASA was on, I got a thank you msg from both RAAus and ASA for my submission.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Turbs, you are just the right sort of thinker to prick holes in stupid ideas and I would like for you to be on the RAAus board.

I still disagree with you abut the Adelaide airspace submission and wonder how many times that airspace has actually been used in the last 20 years. AND why could not an airliner in real distress use one of its radios to talk to us?