Does your ultralight have a transponder?

[danny_galaga]

Poll

[Kiwi]

I have two Raaus registered aircraft,  one has a transponder one doesn't. 

[danny_galaga]

55 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

I have two Raaus registered aircraft,  one has a transponder one doesn't. 

I would count that as a yes then 🙂

[APenNameAndThatA]

I voted "yes". I believe that you include all aircraft up to MTOW 600 kg as ultralights? 

2 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

I would count that as a yes then 🙂

I say it is a "yes and no". Maybe we should require people to have a different login for each of their aircraft. 

[danny_galaga]

7 hours ago, APenNameAndThatA said:

I voted "yes". I believe that you include all aircraft up to MTOW 600 kg as ultralights? 

I say it is a "yes and no". Maybe we should require people to have a different login for each of their aircraft. 

Yes, up to mtow 600. I used the term ultralight to keep the heading simple. Also I didn't think of the fact some people would have more tha one aircraft. Unfortunately you have about two seconds to edit posts here but I'll see if I can get the pool changed to multiple votes

[Thruster88]

Is the SkyEcho2 considered to be a transponder for this survey? 

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, Thruster88 said:

Is the SkyEcho2 considered to be a transponder for this survey? 

I think for this purpose I mean that thing with the four digit code you can squawk for air traffic control to identity you with

[mkennard]

That would be an interesting poll, ADSB out in ultralights.

[danny_galaga]

This kinda thing in case there's any confusion. Is it called mode C? (And yes that pic is of a pretty old model, but you get the idea)

[spacesailor]

Lots of " ultralites "  have Weight issues  & don,t carry a battery.

Simple liteweight aircraft, one step  up from a " nanolite ". 

spacesailor

 

[derekliston]

I have Dynon Skyview with transponder and ADSB out. Zenith CH701 which is VH registered but could be RAA.

[BirdDog]

Yep!  Mode S, and just added ADSB in.  

[jackc]

Just purchased a Skyecho2 ECD today 🙂 

[Markdun]

Like Kiwi, I have two Raa planes; one has a mode C ssr transponder, the other the ADSB on/out SkyEcho which goes from one aircraft to another.  So I voted yes and no.

I got the SkyEcho mainly to maintain better separation from military helicopters which often overly my airstrip at less than a 1000’agl, which is disconcerting when landing and taking off.  

A few things with the SkyEcho. Its low power, so the ADSB satellites don’t pick you up, & ATC (at least at Canberra) don’t see you.  If your wives want to track you via Flightradar, then its hit or miss depending on whether some local amateur radio operator picks you up and plugs that data into the web.  The LEDs seem to fail.  And the WiFi connection with my ipad (& using Ozrunways) unpredictably drops out about 3 or 4 times every flight.

I’d be keen to put a mode C xpdr in my Corby, but there is no panel realestate available.  The EFIS (MGL XTREME) on the panel can work as a xpdr control head via RS232 but only for a $5000 specific brand remote one.  Yet a remote mode C can be picked up for a couple of hundred dollars.  Problem is they use different RS232 proprietary protocols and no-one publishes them. If only the regulator required them to.

[mkennard]

Actually just noticed lately my Avplan track jumps (Not the internet connection, my aircraft). I wonder if the Skyecho is keeping the GPS connection or it could be the wifi dropping. Hard to pinpoint unless I catch it in the process.

[danny_galaga]

Mods have fixed the voting now. Those of you with several Ra-aus registered aircraft- one with and one without just vote yes AND no 🙂

 

If you have MORE than two Ra-aus aircraft well damn! 😄 If none have transponders just vote no, if they all have transponders just vote yes. If some do some don't vote yes AND no.

 

Derek Liston, I think your vote counts as it's an aircraft that is often registered Ra-aus 🙂

 

 

[Markdun]

I’m told by experts that the GPS position and the ADSB out are working if the little leds are not red.  The WIFI connection for ADSB ‘in’ is another matter.  The point, i think, of the SkyEcho is more to make you reliably conspicuous to the heavies than to provide you with reliable info, afterall you are in Class G or E if you have just the SkyEcho and responsibility to avoid conflict is based on the unreliable mark I eyeball and neurons and uncertified brain software.  Still its nice with the SE to notice the odd aeroplane in the sky nearby.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Markdun
Crap auto correct

[kgwilson]

Transponders in RA is a waste of panel space and money. They are useless at low altitude and useful in CTR where we are not permitted to go. ADSB in/out as in Skyecho2 is modern technolgy, affordable & useful for the pilot without requiring any interrogation from Airservices who are not interested anyway. "Squawk your parrot" transponder was invented in 1942 & has changed little except for the electronics since then.

[Garfly]

Markdun, have you heard of others who are having problems with networking the SE2 to their iPads, or is that just your experience.  There may be a quick tech-fix for that. 

 

So far, it's worked flawlessly for me. And I find the ADSB-IN info very reliable and very useful - on pretty much every flight.  I'm presently based in the Port Macquarie / Taree area where there's a lot of commercial traffic - of all sorts.   They always show up on the iPad right where I expect them to (usually after being first alerted by radio).  

 

Actually, the reduction in radio clutter due to the pithy phrase  "We've got you on TCAS" is an under-appreciated by-product of ADSB-IN.  (BTW, that seems to be the phrase that's used even when the device is not an actual TCAS.  Am I right? One alternative "Got you on the fish-finder"  - deployed in some places -  sort of gets around that problem ;- )

 

To me it's a good thing that more and more recreationals are signalling their presence with electronic conspicuity.  Hopefully soon, mid-airs (and, more commonly, mid-air anxiety, diverting a pilot's attention from other tasks) will be a thing of the past.

[Thruster88]

2 hours ago, kgwilson said:

Transponders in RA is a waste of panel space and money. They are useless at low altitude and useful in CTR where we are not permitted to go. ADSB in/out as in Skyecho2 is modern technolgy, affordable & useful for the pilot without requiring any interrogation from Airservices who are not interested anyway. "Squawk your parrot" transponder was invented in 1942 & has changed little except for the electronics since then.

I will have to disagree Kevin, even old mode C transponders are useful at low level at places like Cowra for bigger aircraft with TCAS, the TCAS unit triggers them so no radar required for that to work. Mode S is not dependent on radar for any function, they broadcast continuously.

 

A transponder not turned on is useless.  

[Kyle Communications]

6 hours ago, kgwilson said:

Transponders in RA is a waste of panel space and money. They are useless at low altitude and useful in CTR where we are not permitted to go. ADSB in/out as in Skyecho2 is modern technolgy, affordable & useful for the pilot without requiring any interrogation from Airservices who are not interested anyway. "Squawk your parrot" transponder was invented in 1942 & has changed little except for the electronics since then.

I totally disagree

 

Being able to see other ADSB aircraft out there when NOT flying in CTA is a good thing. Would be nice is the SE2 also saw Mode C transponders but alas no. I think in the future all aircraft will be required to have ADSB out be it a EC device or a full blown Mode S 

 

For ultralight RAA style of aircraft I think it would be great to see where ALL the kamakazis are. The flying ability and decisions made from other pilots has me worried. I am not sure if its the training that happening now or the lack of training but there are so many pilots out there that just dont seem to give a sh*t about ops manuals or ERSA info when it comes to approaches or radio. I have certainly noticed it in the past 5 years or so.

At least if you can see where everyone is you must be then able to make better informed decisions. EC devices are direct comms in most cases depending on other things but all the FR24 and the other one I cant think of right now all have feeder sites and no matter what Airservices has on the gound most likely you will see the data from a feeder on your Ipad or whatever Pad style nav device you have

 

 

[Garfly]

Mark, as far as I can tell, you're actually in agreement with what kg is saying, at least about the general usefulness of ADSB, no?  He's just saying he's not so keen on old style Mode C units for RAAus craft, though Thruster points out they still have a place (OCTA) in cases where old style TCAS units are in use by commercial operators.

 

Another consideration, as things stand, is that some kind of proper transponder (be it Mode C or S) is still needed to legally use Class E.  (SkyEcho2 won't cut it in E)  Isn't that what we concluded here, in other threads on the topic, a while back?

 

 

 

 

 

[walrus]

Flew to a destination for lunch with two other aircraft last week. Two had sky echo and I have ADSB in/out transponder. ADSB only showed close traffic BUT we all had ipads running Ozrunways. Ozrunways showed all of us and we kept in line astern at about equal four mile intervals 🙂

 

…A little chat occasionally on 123.45 and we kept ourselves neat and tidy there and back.

[Garfly]

Walrus, when you say 'ADSB only showed close traffic' how close do you mean?  In my experience (with SkyEcho2) it's like having a ring-of-confidence 50nm across, or more  - all you'd ever need to separate yourself. 

 

Of course, those devices work on an aircraft-to-aircraft (and to ATC tower) basis, whereas systems like OzRunways'  'traffic' uses cell tower networks and the internet to share-out almost-real-time position/plan data of its participating users (so its coverage is unlimited where towers exist). The OzRunways screen can display both types of target, making use of slightly different symbols, the former dark blue and the latter light blue.  (For various reasons I'd prefer they were different colours.) 

 

Anyway, I was wondering if, in your anecdote, you were making a distinction between the two types.  After all, if all three of you pilots were running OzRwys with 'traffic' enabled (and, optionally, 'share-my-callsign' on) then the separation you arranged might have worked even without ADSB, right?  That is, by using OzRunways' 'traffic' alone.

 

(Or alternatively, AvPlan's own system.  BTW, when will the two EFB mobs agree to share and combine their data!?  Lives could be at stake, here.)

 

There are, of course, many advantages of going with an ADSB solution: more reliability; cell tower coverage is not everywhere; there's practically no latency; few commercial flights share EFB data whereas they all have ADSB-OUT. But until that's universal, it's great that we can mix and match available systems on the one screen.  Obviously it doesn't catch everything - yet - but we're getting there. Equally obviously, no one's saying there's now no need to look outside.  Heck, we go flying precisely in order to look outside.  After all, when we drive it's not windscreen OR mirrors, it's windscreen AND mirrors; whatever it takes to optimise awareness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Garfly

[jackc]

Quite simply for me, a Skyecho2 is an investment in safety,  It may not be a total answer but it’s better than NONE 🙂