Yarra Valley incident

[Mriya]

Took this photo earlier today (27th Oct) in the Yarra Valley.  This was also spotted and reported to me by someone else yesterday.  My queries so far indicate no Jabirus are missing from either YCEM or YLIL.  Does anyone have more info regarding how this aircraft ended up in a paddock near the powerlines that form the southern leg of the circuit area for YCEM?  It looks like it has a busted LH MLG and wing tip!

Edited October 27, 2021 by Mriya

[BirdDog]

Maybe they just stopped for picnic! 🙂

[RossK]

No Information surfacing.

Awfully close to those powerlines 😬

[Mriya]

Intriguing!  Someone has to know something.  Busted aircraft sitting in a paddock with a story to tell...

[pmccarthy]

Perhaps it’s a large model.

[Mriya]

Approx 1:1 scale from what I saw if that's the case 😉

[turboplanner]

The Bermuda Triangle of Melbourne; a story to rival the Marie Celeste.............

[SGM]

Could it be this?


 

Edited October 29, 2021 by SGM
typo

[440032]

Don't you hate it when you can't raise the nose because of inadequate ailerons?

[Mriya]

That's the one.  Knew someone would have the answer.

[facthunter]

I noticed the extent of the upslope after examining the picture in detail. He?(she) would need about 15 extra knots to flare onto that as  best guess.. deadstick,  if the attempt was upslope. No one ever gets a chance to practice one of these, unless you fly in New Guinea and you need full power to continue up the hill..  Nev

Edited October 29, 2021 by facthunter

[Old Koreelah]

Another element of difficulty with landing up a slope: soil creep often results in what looks like horizontal cattle tracks across the hillside. Livestock may actually walk along these lines, accentuating them and making for a rough-as-guts arrival. I’ve had a Jab undercarriage leg fail (inner bolt broke) on much smoother grass.

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

On 30/10/2021 at 8:21 AM, 440032 said:

Don't you hate it when you can't raise the nose because of inadequate ailerons?

I'm a rude as the next person, but mocking someone because they crash landed on an upslope is next level. Airstrips are on flat ground. The forced landing wasn't on flat ground. Stop being an (edited...mod) their airplane is wrecked. You have no way of knowing that the pilot does not read these forums, or won't in the future. 

[facthunter]

True about soil creep (landslide) but I've never used that as an excuse for any landing. Rabbit holes can ruin your day. When I first flew Austers I was warned about them crashing on take off on rough strips. The bungee cords on the undercarriage will launch them into the air before you have a safe flying speed . If it's in a crosswind especially problematic.  Nev

[APenNameAndThatA]

Same goes for anyone who thinks that being an  (edityed again...mod) is 😆

[pmccarthy]

On 30/10/2021 at 9:11 AM, APenNameAndThatA said:

I'm a rude as the next person, but mocking someone because they crash landed on an upslope is next level. Airstrips are on flat ground. The forced landing wasn't on flat ground. Stop being an  ()edited). Their airplane is wrecked. You have no way of knowing that the pilot does not read these forums, or won't in the future. 

I think the laugh was on the reporter who said ailerons instead of elevators.

[turboplanner]

2 minutes ago, pmccarthy said:

I think the laugh was on the reporter who said ailerons instead of elevators.

It looks more formal than a local news item; looks more like a formal  accident/incident report to me.

[Chris SS]

And that makes it even worse…

 

[Thruster88]

It was written by the pilot or someone at RAAus head office, either way not a good look.

[APenNameAndThatA]

10 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

I think the laugh was on the reporter who said ailerons instead of elevators.

OOPS. Apollogies to 440032. Looks like I really am rude as the next person. Thank you for pointing that out. Too late to delete or edit my post. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by APenNameAndThatA

[kgwilson]

You can land a hang glider in a "fly on the wall" full flare on a pretty steep upslope but not a conventional aircraft unless you have had lots of training and experience as AG pilots in NZ have on steep hill country strips. The report description was not expressed well but the message was there. The pilot would have had to approach at 70 knots or more & flare hard to follow the rising ground as the speed bled off & even then if the ground was ribbed and rough as may have been the case the result may have been similar anyway. 

 

In this case the pilot did as good a job as anyone without experience would have. Not only that he/she walked away. That is a definition of a good landing. It would have been a great landing if the aircraft could have been used again.

[facthunter]

A significant upslope will produce a short landing roll or cancel out your faster approach speed rapidly after touchdown. The faster speed is needed for the abrupt flare to work. IF you stall into rising ground you are worse off.

  Under the circumstances THAT outcome was a good one..  It's impossible to train for this but it would be a good idea to run all the problems and issues such landings pose as part of training syllabus's..  An upslope may be your only option. You can train for downhill situations and in many of them you can't land as  the plane will just continue gliding in ground effect. Nev

[Old Koreelah]

4 hours ago, kgwilson said:

You can land a hang glider in a "fly on the wall" full flare on a pretty steep upslope but not a conventional aircraft unless you have had lots of training and experience as AG pilots in NZ have on steep hill country strips…

I guess the aircraft needs to be designed for these sort of operations. Jabiru elevators have very little down-movement; maybe there was also insufficient up-movement for this slope. 

 

There are several STOL aircraft in my local area and one often lands on a nearby hillside. His tyres sure don’t get much wear, I guess he has excellent brakes to hold it on the steep slope.

[kgwilson]

OK, I think you mean up movement. Down would result in a rather nasty nose straight in. Full up elevator on my aircraft is 10 deg I think & looks like it would have little effect when you just look at it on the ground. It is a full flying stabilator though and I have never pulled full up yet. Flying a low pass of the runway at 120knots I pull up to about 50-60degrees & apply full power with not a lot of back stick & it feels like I am going up vertically. If I pulled the stick right back I reckon the aircraft would loop easily. Not my cuppa though especially at ground level.

[Old Koreelah]

49 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

OK, I think you mean up movement. Down would result in a rather nasty nose straight in…

No Kev, I did actually mean down. I’ve noticed Jab elevators have very limited movement below horizontal, and guessed that the up-elevator movement wouldn’t be great either. They put a lot of work into testing them, so I presume the elevator travel works just fine for their normal range of flying ops.

 

(Compared to my barn doors, with a huge range of travel, that is)