Affordable flying?

[turboplanner]

3 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Why, Geoff H?   Cos very few have your analytical skills and so they think electric = zero emissions.

But IF you were to charge your car from solar panels, AND if those solar panels were themselves made from green electricity, then the figures for the tesla improve huh.

Correct but the current plans don't think that through and the numbers are based of us somehow doubling out power grid output and running a new 44000 volt grid to supply the 3 phase chargers. Not logic at all.

[danny_galaga]

Just read about Polini engines recently. Freakin cheap as!

 

https://www.beliteaircraft.com/polini-thor-250-engine-review-the-best-ultralight-engine-weve-seen/

[kasper]

2 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

Just a reminder the thread is about affordable flying. Anyone beat the 6k thruster.😂

Less than $3k for the panther xl trike in 2008.  The the raven xl trike in 2014 was $1200 but I had to overhaul the engine so that one comes in at just over $2k plus my time.  The home built trike has cost just over $6k but that’s all new except engine that was 2nd hand. 

[Geoff_H]

For some years I have been trying to make an aircraft for less than $10k.  First attempt was scrapped as it was far too heavy.  The idea was to make moulds and loan them out, really not feasible, too easy to damage the moulds.  I am on second attempt now.  Engines $4k, leaves $6k for fuselage etc.  Use phone efis, may work.  Hand held radio.  Probably on target but making many parts in my lathe and milling machine. I expect that I will achieve the end result.  The aircraft is small and I am using quad bike braking system. I machined wheels from single blocks of aluminium.  Canopy will blowv$10 if it is bought, I will have to make it, doubt that the result will be ok.

I have many 3d printed parts.  I have spent $4k on tools, excluding lathe.

I am 74 now, I don't think that I will finish it before I loose my medical.

[Geoff_H]

More pics

[turboplanner]

 The UK after ditching coal has run out of power and will be putting in infrastructure to buy power from Norway.

 

[kasper]

1 hour ago, Geoff_H said:

For some years I have been trying to make an aircraft for less than $10k.  First attempt was scrapped as it was far too heavy.  The idea was to make moulds and loan them out, really not feasible, too easy to damage the moulds.  I am on second attempt now.  Engines $4k, leaves $6k for fuselage etc.  Use phone efis, may work.  Hand held radio.  Probably on target but making many parts in my lathe and milling machine. I expect that I will achieve the end result.  The aircraft is small and I am using quad bike braking system. I machined wheels from single blocks of aluminium.  Canopy will blowv$10 if it is bought, I will have to make it, doubt that the result will be ok.

I have many 3d printed parts.  I have spent $4k on tools, excluding lathe.

I am 74 now, I don't think that I will finish it before I loose my medical.

You might like to reconsider the quad bike discs.  You will find that a flat will have the disc on the ground and it’s likely to twist and jam.  I use Vespa hydraulics on the 912 trike and a plane stainless disc cut to be the diameter of the wheel less 5mm.  From experience a total flat does not cause disc strike and it pulls up 450kg of trike on grass in under 100m

[facthunter]

I was going to point that out and glad you did instead. A lock up on one side unanticipated is likely to be spectacular.. Nev

[Geoff_H]

On 19/11/2021 at 8:06 PM, kasper said:

You might like to reconsider the quad bike discs.  You will find that a flat will have the disc on the ground and it’s likely to twist and jam.  I use Vespa hydraulics on the 912 trike and a plane stainless disc cut to be the diameter of the wheel less 5mm.  From experience a total flat does not cause disc strike and it pulls up 450kg of trike on grass in under 100m

The discs are 15mm larger than the rim.  With two side walls and tread roughly calculated at 15mm the discs may touch the ground but only just.  The calipers are very small and fully floating.  I did some tests some time ago and the discs were extremely difficult to twist. The craft AUW is 200kg.  

[turboplanner]

55 minutes ago, Geoff_H said:

The discs are 15mm larger than the rim.  With two side walls and tread roughly calculated at 15mm the discs may touch the ground but only just.  The calipers are very small and fully floating.  I did some tests some time ago and the discs were extremely difficult to twist. The craft AUW is 200kg.  

Have you had a chance to try them out in a spike stop Geoff (with the AC mass)?

In making disc brakes for race cars I've found the braking is exponentially better to the diameter, so I usually have a bigger disk turned up until I can produce a lock up.

 

For this reason I'm reluctant to say anything about turning off some diameter, but another more common operational issue is bogging down in soft ground. 

[Geoff_H]

The intent is to only use the brakes for taxing and holding the aircraft during starting the engines.  No starter motors.  Virtually no electric system.  Batteries in hand held radio fitted with remote headset, signals for tachos and kill switches. EFIS in phone. Nothing in the aircraft that doesn't have to be there.

[Bruce Tuncks]

That was the philosophy of the first Jabiru planes...  a minimal aircraft, although I admit that things like the starter motor detracted from this a bit.

AND I have to say that I really liked your stories about power supply in Australia Geoff-H. Thanks.

[Flightrite]

The whole philosophy of the AUF was to keep it simple hence affordable flying but like most thinks in life you plant a seed then it grows into a big tree!👍

[Geoff_H]

In the early 70's it was great to get an aircraft that had a cheap VW engine, open canopy absolute minimum instruments and a cruise speed of around 70 knots.  Now we want a full panel enclosed canopy long range 100kt cruise speed.  Leather interior etc etc.  I think that the Corby starlet is one of the best minimum cost aircraft around.  

[Flightrite]

You’re right the Corby Starlet is an amazing plane, will go to VNE using the Jab80 in Lvl flight if you are not careful👍

[facthunter]

What no moon landings permitted?   Some people did think the boundaries should continually be widened. You can improve anything but it might then be out of the reach of most of the existing adherents and getting away from the original idea... Movements like the AUF-RAAus seek to define their patch and cater for it. I don't think the NEW GA was a proper part of that concept. For ONE thing. The OLD GA was never going to cop it without. a fight. The CASA wouldn't know where they are . Each time a New Head comes along you find you've gone back years and all bets are off. Nev

[spacesailor]

Geof,

Hummel make a ' FAR part 103 ' aircraft just as you describe. The only ' all metal Ultralight ', 

BUT

Not for Australia 

Comes in ' plans, kit,& anything in between ', their words.

spacesailor

[jackc]

2 hours ago, Geoff_H said:

In the early 70's it was great to get an aircraft that had a cheap VW engine, open canopy absolute minimum instruments and a cruise speed of around 70 knots.  Now we want a full panel enclosed canopy long range 100kt cruise speed.  Leather interior etc etc.  I think that the Corby starlet is one of the best minimum cost aircraft around.  

I don’t care, life is short……even IF Fred Flintstone built it, I would happily fly it 🙂 

[facthunter]

That's where the Pterodactyl came from.

VW motors resemble an aeroplane motor BUT....Nev

Edited November 26, 2021 by facthunter

[jackc]

Not sure IF this one needs new skins?

[Marty_d]

That pterodactyl looks a bit sleepy for my liking.

[onetrack]

Interestingly, one Capt G.T.R. Hill designed a number of swept-wing, tail-less aircraft called Pterodactyls between 1925 and the late 1930's. These designs were all built with the principle of a "stall-less" aircraft in mind.

 

Hill was taken on by Westland and the aircraft were designated "Westland-Hill Pterodactyl", with numerous versions produced. All appeared to be aimed at a military market and military orders.

Despite the fact that the aircraft all proved to be quite viable in operation, the Ministry cancelled all orders for Pterodactyl aircraft just before WW2, and proceeded to favour other, more conventional designs.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westland-Hill_Pterodactyl

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by onetrack

[onetrack]

Here's some more on the Hill Pterodactyl, with further explanation that the design didn't meet expectations of speed and efficiency, and all the Pterodactyl aircraft suffered from excessive pitch sensitivity (as with all flying wing designs).

 

The combination of pitch sensitivity and a poorer maximum speed than expected made the Air Ministry lose interest - particularly when the prototype Hawker Hart light bomber was 20mph faster.

 

The site below also features some fairly poor footage on YouTube, of the one of the earliest Pterodactyls, the MK-1A. It's interesting to see that the MK-1A utilised split flaps for yaw control, a feature still used today on the B-2 Stealth bomber. What is new, is not necessarily new, after all.

 

http://vintageairphotos.blogspot.com/2015/07/flight-of-pterodactyl.html

[jackc]

2 hours ago, Marty_d said:

That pterodactyl looks a bit sleepy for my liking.

That’s what happens when you engage auto pilot on a Pterodactyl:-) 

[Thruster88]

There is a new in original crate 1982 Pterodactyl Ascender 11 for sale on gumtree with engine for 3k. One from the golden era of ultralights😁