Affordable flying?

[Kenlsa]

40 minutes ago, Student Pilot said:

Colt for under 20K? Surely you jest?

Found 3 in the last 2 years and I bought one. Decided on a recover and freshen the motor, so am part way thru that at this stage.  Was a flyer with belly fabric repair needed but I am making it pretty as I have a Jab to fly anyway

Ken

[F10]

On 12/11/2021 at 3:09 PM, jackc said:

As I have said before, we need a low budget, foundation aviation sector to foster interest and affordability. The U.S. FAR Part 103 system is going ahead in leaps and bounds, factory built and kit aircraft are flying out the door.  It embodies all the aspects of Recreational Aviation. Would RAAus support this?   They were happy to see the old AUF gone, maybe we need to recognise what was old, can be new again. Given the good and modern airframe designs, why not?  Or are we only interested in hanging off the skirt of GA?

Yep it’s a pity we don’t have a FAR 103 system, and if we did, somthing which gets you out to 50 miles from your ‘drome. Legally you can go to 50 miles without getting a met forecast…so should be good for 103. Aircraft like the Aerolite 103, which to me looks like a very nice piece of kit, would be great for a swing around the patch on a lovely late afternoon when it’s cooling off and the wind has dropped. To do this without all sorts of legislation tie down straps would be good. In a single seater….you only have yourself to blame, it seems being able to take your own responsibility is almost a privilege these “safe” days.

[F10]

38 minutes ago, Kenlsa said:

Found 3 in the last 2 years and I bought one. Decided on a recover and freshen the motor, so am part way thru that at this stage.  Was a flyer with belly fabric repair needed but I am making it pretty as I have a Jab to fly anyway

Ken

Nice! Like Colts, I have often thought it would be nice to buy an Aerolite 103, to “scratch the itch”, whilst I re-built my Gazelle…that would be fun!

[jackc]

I had a chance to import 3 FAR Part 103 aircraft kits from the U.S.  unfortunately not the Aerolite 103.  Kicking myself now as I think they may have sold easily, with a small markup just to get people into the sky.  Give the owners the blurb sheet on RAAus and leave it with them……..their choice what they would do 🙂

 

[Flightrite]

When you factor in purchase price, hangarage, insurance, Maint inc unforeseen Maint, fuel, club fees (if any) ldg fees (bastards!) it’s expensive to  own/operate a decent plane you can go places in with another person.

 My VH machine costs me$225 an hr based on 50 hrs a year, not everyone can afford that but it’s my time machine at 180 kts, my other machines are puddle jumpers but very limiting.

[jackc]

What many people would  not do……to get a puddle jumper, for many people less is good 🙂 

[Flightrite]

I often do (pre Covid bullshit) 700+ nm a mornings flight  to visit friends/family so yr average RA takes too long, at my age time is short👍😉

Edited November 15, 2021 by Flightrite

[jackc]

30 minutes ago, Flightrite said:

I often do (pre Covid bullshit) 700+ nm a mornings flight  to visit friends/family so yr average RA takes too long, at my age time is short👍😉

 

Being able to fly ANYTHING is good enough for me 🙂

[poteroo]

On 13/11/2021 at 10:50 PM, naremman said:

Sorry guys, but you have missed the apex of affordable aviation by about 40 years!!

Nah, missed by 50 years!  The swinging sixties were the good years in aviation. It was actually possible to fly in a NEW  Victa,  Cessna, Piper, Beechcraft, or Maule.  Why? because they were new, and affordable.  In 1965, for my capital investment of $500 in a new Brisbane flying group, I got to fly a new Victa or a new C172 out of Archerfield. The rates were: Victa  $9/hr and C172 $11/hr  -  both wet. In 1964 my 1st R/G endo was a 1963 Piper Comanche. My 1st T/W in 65 was a new 1965 Maule Rocket.  My 1st twin in 67 was a new 1966 Piper Aztec. In 1969, I flew a 1969 Twin Comanche C - lovely unit. 

 

There were a lot of restrictions on flying back then - it wasn't open skies.  We had to submit a flight plan for every trip - in writing mostly, and maintain full radio contact on VHF and HF at all times. Radio position reports were required every 30-40 mins.  Lodging and closing plans was a real hassle due to poor radio reception, terrible phone availability too.  Todays system is far better.

 

happy days,

[jackc]

And there was not a 500 page book of rules and regs…..

[BrendAn]

On 12/11/2021 at 9:04 PM, Bruce Tuncks said:

I have often wondered why 2 strokes are not better than 4 strokes. The flimsy valve business with 4 strokes should wipe them out in comparison. The failing of some 2 strokes has been the need to mix the oil in the fuel, but this is not a 2 stroke thing but a cheap thing. Yes, the fact that crankcase compression systems cause some of the incoming charge to go straight out the exhaust is a downside. But the extra mixing of fuel/air is an upside.

What about a diesel 2 stroke? It sure has been done and it should have taken over but it didn't. I have never understood why not.

   

If you drove 2 stroke GM powered trucks and normal 4 strokes you would see why 4 strokes took over from them.   Outboard manufacturers have made super efficient 2 strokes but the fuel systems can be finicky and they are falling by the wayside now as 4 Strokes are far more popular. Bombardier ceased outboard production this year . Sales decline for 2 strokes being one of the reasons  . 

[BrendAn]

On 14/11/2021 at 5:44 AM, jackc said:

Yes, but sadly we now have some Flying Schools charging in excess of $300 per hour with extras on top to train for your Certificate to fly that nice cheap aircraft.  Aviation has its financial vultures everywhere that raises costs, from the regulator down……..

For me it does not matter as I am near EOL, but I feel for young people who want to have a go at Aviation…….

I purchased my thruster to learn in. I supply plane instructor is $110 P/h.  At the end of the course I have saved 2or 3k so my thruster will owe me about 4k and I have a great little plane that will provide a lot of fun flying until I move into a jab or gazelle. Or possibly a gyro. They seem to have a bigger following than ultralights these days.

[jackc]

I am completing my training in Thruster with 7 hours to go (required)but will be longer and will have tail wheel at the end, which will also cover my Aeropup, too.

Suspect I may spend more time in Thruster tan Aeropup, but will see what happens.

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, BrendAn said:

If you drove 2 stroke GM powered trucks and normal 4 strokes you would see why 4 strokes took over from them.   

 

WQ10292.wav

[onetrack]

Quote

The rates were: Victa  $9/hr and C172 $11/hr  -  both wet.

It might be relevant to mention that in 1965, the average weekly male wage was about $80, too! 

 

When you take into account that the AWMW is now around $1900, the cost/earnings comparison for today is still not a lot different.

 

I think there's a lot more demands on our money today, though, with vast amounts of glitzy electronic devices dragging our funds down. I can recall losing lots of time and money by not being able to contact people or by not being contactable myself - and everything swung around finding an accessible landline phone - even if it was only a party line!

[onetrack]

The 2 stroke supercharged GM diesel was not only good at converting diesel into hearing-destroying noise, they were also gutless and thirsty, too.

Oh, and they first appeared in 1937! Their time is past and they belong only in museums and historic machinery/transport exhibition days.

[kgwilson]

2 strokes are less reliable, run on fossil fuels, produce more polluting exhaust, are less fuel efficient and noisy. At the small end of the scale for example chainsaws, battery saws are taking over. At our SES unit we just replaced 2 x Stihl 194T Arborist 2 stroke saws with 2 x Stihl MSA 160 battery saws. The battery lasts up to 2 hours, there is virtually no noise and no fumes & no fuel mixing & they don't need to be primed or started (sometimes with difficulty) with a pull cord. They do a superb job. I'd never go back. It is easy to see why battery power is take over from ICE.

[BrendAn]

39 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

 

WQ10292.wav 1.6 MB · 8 downloads

No sound but I presume it was a clip of a GM . Nothing else sounds as good .

[BrendAn]

31 minutes ago, onetrack said:

The 2 stroke supercharged GM diesel was not only good at converting diesel into hearing-destroying noise, they were also gutless and thirsty, too.

Oh, and they first appeared in 1937! Their time is past and they belong only in museums and historic machinery/transport exhibition days.

That noise is music to me.  I have driven 892s and 71s over the years. No go but sound great. 

[turboplanner]

17 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

No sound but I presume it was a clip of a GM . Nothing else sounds as good .

It's a .wav sound file.

On my computer when I click the link, Microsoft music opens and plays the file. If you have a different system you may have to put it in that directory. Worth it for the laughter at the end.

[facthunter]

Two stroke engines hate back pressure and the exhaust system is often a major part of the motor's performance and it's bulky, draggy and ugly like on a 582. They get full of carbon crap  too. and are often fuel cooled. Nev

[BrendAn]

12 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Two stroke engines hate back pressure and the exhaust system is often a major part of the motor's performance and it's bulky, draggy and ugly like on a 582. They get full of carbon crap  too. and are often fuel cooled. Nev

My thruster has the black spots on the tail feathers to prove it 😀

[jackc]

Fit an expansion chamber and GO!

[Bruce Tuncks]

I agree with kg about electric chain-saws. I use one from total tools and it is just great. I can start the electric one every time with no worries.

 

[spacesailor]

I have an electric hedge trimmer !.  (  240 volt )

BUT

l cut its wire accidentally and it died with a pop.

Frightened the life out of me. Blew the handle apart.  All repaired now & still going well since 1982.

spacesailor