ADSB for all?

[Bruce Tuncks]

My experience is that the powers that be will use the information gained against us.

The only people who have ever got into trouble with airspace at Gawler were those who had used a transponder. They had committed a "violation " of airspace which had not been used since the days of the DC4. Yep, those lines on the map were based on the climb performance of a DC4 with one engine out. Why did they not just use the information from the transponder to make sure there was no mid-air collision?

We are especially bad for being submissive in Australia. Once I listened to the radio exchanges between a pommy pilot ( who was going to overfly the Grand Prix crowd in a jet)  ) and an air traffic controller. The pommy pilot was saying that he didn't want the state of SA shut down airspace-wise. The Australian ATC guy was bewildered by this. Surely the more airspace he had then the safer he would be..

Well I don't think the whole state  was offered to be shut down, but my airspace at Gawler was, even though the pommy guy was not going to come to  within 50 km of where I was.

In the event, the ATC guy listened to the pommy pilot and so I was able to stay flying.

But I have a deep distrust of big government. And a fear that they will charge us " user pays" fees for services we don't want.

[turboplanner]

45 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

My experience is that the powers that be will use the information gained against us.

The only people who have ever got into trouble with airspace at Gawler were those who had used a transponder. They had committed a "violation " of airspace which had not been used since the days of the DC4. Yep, those lines on the map were based on the climb performance of a DC4 with one engine out. Why did they not just use the information from the transponder to make sure there was no mid-air collision?

We are especially bad for being submissive in Australia. Once I listened to the radio exchanges between a pommy pilot ( who was going to overfly the Grand Prix crowd in a jet)  ) and an air traffic controller. The pommy pilot was saying that he didn't want the state of SA shut down airspace-wise. The Australian ATC guy was bewildered by this. Surely the more airspace he had then the safer he would be..

Well I don't think the whole state  was offered to be shut down, but my airspace at Gawler was, even though the pommy guy was not going to come to  within 50 km of where I was.

In the event, the ATC guy listened to the pommy pilot and so I was able to stay flying.

But I have a deep distrust of big government. And a fear that they will charge us " user pays" fees for services we don't want.

A DC4 on one engine out would get priority over everyone in its path for whatever it wanted to do; even recreational aircraft would be called up and booted out of its way. Same goes for any current aicraft in distress in or out of controlled airspace.

[Bruce Tuncks]

You missed the point turbs...  it has been many years since a DC4  flew out of Adelaide,  but they kept the same lines on the map. 

This means that you can still inadvertently enter "controlled" airspace near Burra, even though the need for that to be controlled airspace has long gone. This happened to a good mate of mine, he had a please explain to answer because he had a transponder on.

 

As a matter of fact though, I sure would stay well away from a DC4 with one engine gone. Apparently, it was not that unusual to have this happen. I read that the Super Constellations frequently lost one engine on their long flights. Also, I do appreciate the possibility of training flights there, not that I ever saw anything like that in 40 years.

[Markdun]

20 hours ago, jackc said:

Well, the Skyecho2 broadcasts its position, other aircraft receive it although I don’t think airspeed and altitude is sent), correct me if I am wrong. I phoned our local ATC and they did not know what an ECD was 🙂. I mentioned Skyecho and still drew a blank!!

SE2 broadcasts position, altitude, speed and course (ie. velocity), plus your call sign (for Ra-aus it Romeo XXXX, the Xes being the last four numerals of your rego). Its low output (20W i think) & is not picked up by Musk’s satellites.  The 200W ADSB devices are picked up by satellite and they now cover the globe.  So Airservices ground stations are becoming irrelevant technically (maybe not economically) at least for the full power versions.  That said, my airstrip is around 30nm from YCBR and they cant see me with the ADSB.  They can see me from about 3500’ with SSR transponder.  The app ‘flightradar’ seems to picks up my SE2 up a bit higher ~ 4500’asl, but of-course that all depends on some guy with a receiver on the ground plugging the data into the internet.

 The main reason I got the SE2 was to help avoid frequent low  (500-100’’agl )military rotor wing aircraft overlying my airstrip and a situation one day where I had to dodge one on downwind when landing & they dont listen to the area frequency. According to the guy I talked to in the airforce they use ,see & avoid’, & they declined my offer to land at my place for a coffee so we could discuss how to better avoid each other. I found out they generally do have ADSB turned on, but frequently with data missing, like call sign.  However the SE2 has been quite useful,,eg. finding a friend flying his plane and also being able to avoid a rescue helicopter coming directly my way...i could see them and they could see me (changing direction and altitude to avoid them) but as my aircraft didn’t have an SSR transponder, ATC was none the wiser.  Actually ADSB should reduce the need for ATC and controlled airspace because it puts the info directly to the pilots.  It really is amazing how many other aircraft within 10-15nm you see with ADSB, that you wouldn’t know or see without it.

 

 People are probably aware that many drones have SSR transponders in ModeS, but increasingly they will be full ADSB. Im told the ADSB devices for drones are already down to the size of s small matchbox, only s few grams and can emit 200W ... much more expensive than SE2 though.

[turboplanner]

7 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

You missed the point turbs...  it has been many years since a DC4  flew out of Adelaide,  but they kept the same lines on the map. 

This means that you can still inadvertently enter "controlled" airspace near Burra, even though the need for that to be controlled airspace has long gone. This happened to a good mate of mine, he had a please explain to answer because he had a transponder on.

 

As a matter of fact though, I sure would stay well away from a DC4 with one engine gone. Apparently, it was not that unusual to have this happen. I read that the Super Constellations frequently lost one engine on their long flights. Also, I do appreciate the possibility of training flights there, not that I ever saw anything like that in 40 years.

Controlled airspace is space that ATC can call up for whatever purpose they like, including sending someone out to Burra to draw circles or loops if necessary; I don't think they look at the map and relate it to a DC4 on one engine any more. I've previously posted a copy of the Adelaide area which showed some common holding patterns out in that area. Incursions are a big issue in the Adelaide CTA and I think I've posted that too. If it gets to an Airprox, expect to feature in the ATSB reports as well which brings on a whole extra lot of pain.

[facthunter]

The controlled airspace lower levels east of ADELADE are due to terrain. IF it recall correctly the Height/ distance is  3800' by 8 miles. That gives at least 1000' of terrain clearance. DC-4s generally operated at around 8-9000 feet in Australia and often operated OCTA. A four engined plane when it loses one engine can still call " Ops Normal" when asked by ATC IF it needs no special clearances or consideration . Naturally ETA's would need amending  and you might be requested to state your "endurance" if asked. and new destination ETA.  B 727's climbing east of Mt ISA were falling below the steps of the CTA sometimes and they were subsequently amended to lower levels at a given distance.,  Large Jets avoiding weather etc can end up outside CTA . For which they are CLEARED in and out of .Nev