Just asking after seeing this video - CTFA vs airshow set up.

[flying dog]

A while ago there was the "Wings over Illawarra" fly in.

 

Not to "steal" the thunder, but to put it out there.

 

Normally "Shell Harbour" (Wollongong, as I know it) is a CTAF.  Pilots talk to one another and "play by the rules" as Stefan mentions.

 

But that day it was a sort of controlled airspace.

 

Stefan explains what the rules are.   So I have to ask.

 

This one.

 

 

But my concern is why the "Controller" didn't handle the "conflict"....

 

"Plane on down wind, extend your down wind because *xyz* is on straight in final."

Or something like that.

 

Normally yes, it is an interesting scenario.   But this wasn't normal.

 

Ok, maybe I am being petty.   Maybe.    But the question arose to me and I am interested on what other's think.

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by flying dog

[mkennard]

I think straight in approaches to an airshow or high traffic is not a good idea in general. Also, he relied on unicom for traffic and they could've been wrong. Anyway, the plane on base had the right of way so add that all up, doing a normal circuit pattern should have been the preferred option.

[flying dog]

Ok, it was UNICOM, not CTAF.  Sorry.  In the scheme of things in this case that is not important.

 

But there was a controller in the scheme.  The plane on downwind was on the same frequency.  As was the controller.  And originally the plane you said was on base was on down wind.

 

So if - as you say - the plane on base has right of way:  what was the function of the controller?

 

There seems a big disconnect between the inter-pilot comms on/in the UNICOM and when a controller is in the picture.

 

Sorry, it just seems like there is some confusion with what happened.

[aro]

UNICOM isn't a controller. UNICOM just provides information. Pilots are still responsible for their own separation.

[flying dog]

So if the person who was "on the ground" being the unicom "controller" has no authority.... 

 

There seems to (still) be a problem with how it was set up.

 

Yes:  I'm stupid.   Sorry if it is a dumb question.   But I am missing something to why there was someone "on the ground" co-ordinating (or seeming to) traffic movements yet has no authority.

[facthunter]

You get advice of other aircraft, runway in  use, QNH, wind etc It is NOT Control. That is still resting with each individual pilot. The "system" gives a lot of power to a PIC even in a fully controlled situation and it's long been that  way.. Nev

[flying dog]

Ok, so the person "on the ground" is only there as an advisory person.

 

Ok.

[facthunter]

Unless they've brought in trained controllers and designated it as such. That  would include extra ground based equipment not just a Hand held radio.  I've done the Hand held bit and won't ever do it again. You are NOT there to direct ie regulate or CONTROL anyone. Just advise of conditions..   The pilot has the duty and authority to decline  a course of action but it must stand scrutiny. Ie refuse a down wind landing if you don't consider it safe. IF a pilot holding at the threshold noticed something wrong with a landing plane notification of it would be expected because of the safety aspect. . Common  sense comes into this at some point. (or should). Regardless of any reg. you must operate in the most safe manner open to you. Sully would never be given a clearance to land on the Hudson River.  Nev

[Methusala]

I think that the only Cavalier that I've heard of is based at Wedderburn. He was probably on an easterly course from his base so may have been joining on an extended base leg. In that case it is natural that he would expect priority. Just an opinion. Don

[Thruster88]

The Cavalier called turning base after the cirrus called established visual on final. Yes the Cavalier may have had the right of way however just by extending down wind a bit those TWO aircraft could have both landed quickly leaving the circuit free for the next customer. The cirrus was on a long final because it had done an instrument let down thru cloud.

 

Recently I flew to mudgee under the cloud, gave my 10 mile inbound then heard a Kingair on a straight in instrument approach broadcast. I could have beat him by 1-2 minutes doing the circuit but replied that I would hold clear until he landed. It is the right thing to do and less stressful for all, he was thankful.  

[facthunter]

Delaying the downwind to  base turn is the most effective way to get extra distance between you and a preceding plane. Slowing down to an uncomfortable speed makes much less difference. Also if everyone does a full circuit you are having more total time of  circuit congestion. Sorting it out on the radio  pays dividends. There will be less confusion and uncertainty. Straight in approaches were advised against way back but you do get the plane through the system quicker. The  less time mingling the more safety. Nev

[Methusala]

Was merely wondering whether the Cavalier may have been on extended base entering the circuit from the east. I have held off allowing Saab on straight in approach priority to land. Did not hear the down wind call from the Cavalier.