Question re MTOW increase

[Kyle Communications]

Glenn Group G is the new 760kg RAA designation

 

Yes under the current rules it could registered but as I said not allowed to fly as yet. A C of A would be required and maybe not issueable now... dont know thats why I would like to hear from The Flying Auctioneer on here

 

[RFguy]

PMCARTHY- "A couple of fatties in the seats might move the CoG foreword a bit and allow more luggage."

- might be the case if wing / CoL is behind the seats. But, in the case of wing being FORE of the seats, a couple of fatties would make the CG situation worse. 

As usual W&B must be considered to ensure the aircraft is being flown within the CG limits,  as to  maintain tailplane/elevator  authority for various manouvers - and to ensure a reliable recovery from a spin and/or reduce likelihood of spin entry,

 

Thanks Mark on the Class G clarification.  Hope to have some comment from the The Flying Auctioneer .
 

[turboplanner]

17 minutes ago, RFguy said:

PMCARTHY- "A couple of fatties in the seats might move the CoG foreword a bit and allow more luggage."

- might be the case if wing / CoL is behind the seats. But, in the case of wing being FORE of the seats, a couple of fatties would make the CG situation worse. 

As usual W&B must be considered to ensure the aircraft is being flown within the CG limits,  as to  maintain tailplane/elevator  authority for various manouvers - and to ensure a reliable recovery from a spin and/or reduce likelihood of spin entry,

 

Thanks Mark on the Class G clarification.  Hope to have some comment from the The Flying Auctioneer .
 

Is there some sort of problem in getting such critical information from RAA?

[Thruster88]

11 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Is there some sort of problem in getting such critical information from RAA?

Turbo, that information as you know is in the POH,  pilot operating handbook or AFM, aircraft flight manual. It is not the job of RAAus to provide this information. RFguy has studied many such POH or AFM's including the the Beech23 which he describes as a well sorted aircraft.😁  

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

Turbo, that information as you know is in the POH,  pilot operating handbook or AFM, aircraft flight manual. It is not the job of RAAus to provide this information. RFguy has studied many such POH or AFM's including the the Beech23 which he describes as a well sorted aircraft.😁  

Well you would hope he can, but that wasn't the point.

 

The point is that someone came in posted for the first time, indicating 760 kg was now legal and the first aircraft had been registered, and the thread descended into various WB discussions without anyone taking the time to find out whether 760 kg had been made legal, or whether the post was just a hopeful beat up.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Turbo ...760 is now legal...just not the nuts and bolts paperwork and of course this has spanned 1 day so no one can find out any information about this rego until RAA are back from holidays or The Flying Auctioneer pops up here and tells us. So you like all of us will have to wait until we get more information. The rest is just discussion and presumption and bantering....stop getting your knickers in a knot and settle petal 🙂

 

[turboplanner]

6 hours ago, Kyle Communications said:

Turbo ...760 is now legal...just not the nuts and bolts paperwork and of course this has spanned 1 day so no one can find out any information about this rego until RAA are back from holidays or The Flying Auctioneer pops up here and tells us. So you like all of us will have to wait until we get more information. The rest is just discussion and presumption and bantering....stop getting your knickers in a knot and settle petal 🙂

 

Yes, I get it; you know it's not legal yet nut you're interpreting it as legal.

[clouddancer]

https://www.raa.asn.au/calendar-of-events/mtow/

[440032]

760kg legal/not legal?

CAO 95.55 commenced 2 December 2021, which describes the 760kg availability for some aircraft, so yes, it is 100% legal now.

Whether it is usable yet or not is the question. RAAus will be doing the amendments to their manuals and processes (subject to CASA approval) to make it usable.

And along with the 760kg the 45 knot max stall speed remains.

[RFguy]

Many things would need to happen for existing aircraft that could comply-  to dot the Is and cross the Ts etc....

I would think that the manufacturer would need to update the POH /publish an addendum etc to reflect the new capabilities.

Otherwise, you'd be flying it contrary to the manufacturers guidelines, regardless of the safety factor that is in hand at the uprated weight. So it's not just a tick box. 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by RFguy

[Kyle Communications]

The RANS S-21 with a Rotax in it complies as per the specs from RANS. With the Rotax the MTOW is 1600lbs (727kg) and the stall is about 33kts from memory. The Titan powered S-21 is 1800lb MTOW (820kg) so can not comply even though its stall is 35kts.  

 

 

[RFguy]

Thanks Mark. well there we go . there is complexity to this weight upgrade.

[walrus]

Some Zenith kits already have a design MTOW of 650 kg and documented that upgrade from 600 kg when they did it. CG is in limits at 650 kg and the stall is a not an issue as it’s advertised as3 30 kt at 1320 lb.

[red750]

Another question: Is there a maximum speed or VNE limitation on RAAus registered aircraft? (Sorry, I'm an ex-VH guy, PA28R and B35's)

[onetrack]

Peter, there is no maximum speed limit for RAAus aircraft. VNE is set by the aircraft designer. LSA speed limit is 120kts in cruise. See the FAQ below ...

 

http://www.foxbat.com.au/qa.html

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by onetrack

[red750]

Thanks 1T. Just completed a profile for the Silence Twister and wasn't sure if it was too slick. Cruise is 110 kt, so it's OK.

[Thruster88]

USA has a 120 knot limit for their light sport category. 

[NT5224]

On 23/12/2021 at 7:29 PM, red750 said:

I haven't held a pilot's licence or certificate since 1986 and never will again, so I haven't kept up to date with the proposed change to MTOW rules. My question is, can an aircraft with a MTOW of 750 kg yet be classed as recreational or is it still GA? 

Plenty of aircraft with manufacturer MTOW of up to 750 Kg have been registered with RAAus. Mine was. I have seen Cessna 152s, RVs and other types. But for compliance under RAAus rego weight is restricted to 600kg at takeoff. 

 

I had to chuck out the second row seat and with an adult  passenger  I was theoretically limited to about 1/4 fuel capacity....crazy!  That’s why I registered VH to get around this restriction.

 

Alan 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by NT5224

[SSCBD]

Before RAA and AUF we all flew overweight  - CASA had to back down as no one could really fly legally. To make it legal AUF was formed so CASA could make us legal. Also the  two seat aircraft Drifter and Thruster Gemini  were also illegal till they were forced to certify them and put a system in place for pax.

I am surprised it has not been pushed harder and faster,  how many of us are actually legal at takeoff with two up.  Example - Did a BFR a few years ago  with a rather large instructor and myself not being small with full fuel. Work it out?    

[spacesailor]

My chief flying instructor said " you have taken off too fast ", 

BUT

He was half the size of my daily instructor.

Can,t win against beaurocrasy, l just was,nt told there was a standard ' clinb rate ' on takeoff.

spacesailor

[Blueadventures]

1 minute ago, spacesailor said:

My chief flying instructor said " you have taken off too fast ", 

BUT

He was half the size of my daily instructor.

Can,t win against beaurocrasy, l just was,nt told there was a standard ' clinb rate ' on takeoff.

spacesailor

What, did you do a Saturn 5 climb?

[spacesailor]

I tried to do what l normally did, or was taught. 

Speed to rotate, revs held be angle of attack & horizon at the correct position on the windscreen. 

Should have been all ok.

NO solo flight fo me !.

spacesailor

[NT5224]

24 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

I tried to do what l normally did, or was taught. 

Speed to rotate, revs held be angle of attack & horizon at the correct position on the windscreen. 

Should have been all ok.

NO solo flight fo me !.

spacesailor

Spacey

 

This kinda sounds like what we all did first time flying solo!

 

Alan 

[RFguy]

yes first solo ---   The thing climbs like a scalded cat ! and you are up at crosswind turn 500' and STILL over the end of the runway !!!! (Brumby 610)

 

actually the J230 low fuel, one up, 2 deg C OAT and 1030hpa and 966 feet ASL will climb like a saturn 5...

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by RFguy

[spacesailor]

Never got that First solo.

Boo Hoo, tears & tantrums.

spacesailor