Cost of training?

[pmccarthy]

I have seen costs quoted in discussions here of $200-$300 per hour including instructor. Does anyone have examples of current costs, or possibly aircraft hire rates, for RAA training?

[Thruster88]

Cowra aeroclub has Brumby 610 for $130 wet, instructor is $70.

 

A commercial operator https://www.easternairservices.com.au/hire-rates

[waraton]

Gawler in SA and Daves flying school the Oaks about the cheapest per hour I have seen at under $200 per hour for instruction. All depends on your schedule travel etc. Went through the exercise this year with my young bloke and due to the 900km round trip for us we stayed for 7 days at a time on 4 occasions and he flew weather permitting. The older you are the harder it is to learn so that intensity of every day can be tiresome and not end up saving money. I think finding the a school/instructor which suits you is the best value because you will learn faster and enjoyment is key.

[Bosi72]

Assuming it's a Raaus conversion, you'll need 5 hours, of which 1 hr solo. Tyabb is around $300ph and they have a Foxbat online.

 

Plus ~$300 for RaOz membership.

[Agamemnon]

Around $270 per hour for Tecnams in Southern Victoria. Total cost (including everything) for my RPC was around $8k.

[BrendAn]

15 hours ago, Agamemnon said:

Around $270 per hour for Tecnams in Southern Victoria. Total cost (including everything) for my RPC was around $8k.

Was that including cross country and passenger endorsements.

[Agamemnon]

On 08/01/2022 at 12:37 AM, BrendAn said:

Was that including cross country and passenger endorsements.

Nope, cross country is around another $4k. Passenger endorsement maybe another $600-$1k depending on whether you do it before or after cross-country. These costs include all flight hours and required purchases except for an iPad and EFB subscription (which is another $1k plus potentially).

[Geoff_H]

To convert to RSS what are any additional costs to flying instructions?

[Jerry_Atrick]

@pmccarthy- don't do it.. don't go to the dark side.... 😉

 

As yo and I now, whatever it costs today, it will cost more tomorrow!

 

[skippydiesel]

On 09/01/2022 at 11:07 AM, Agamemnon said:

Nope, cross country is around another $4k. Passenger endorsement maybe another $600-$1k depending on whether you do it before or after cross-country. These costs include all flight hours and required purchases except for an iPad and EFB subscription (which is another $1k plus potentially).

Wow!! "cross country is around another $4k Passenger endorsement maybe another $600-$1k" So that  makes what I would consider to be a useful certificate $12-13K. The basic $8K didn't seem so unreasonable but I cant see how the additional endorsement can cost an additional $5K - how can this be justified??

[Agamemnon]

22 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Wow!! "cross country is around another $4k Passenger endorsement maybe another $600-$1k" So that  makes what I would consider to be a useful certificate $12-13K. The basic $8K didn't seem so unreasonable but I cant see how the additional endorsement can cost an additional $5K - how can this be justified??

A cross-country endorsement requires a minimum of 10 hours dual + 2 hours solo + a flight test. So the cost is roughly based on that plus other purchases including maps, flight computer etc.

 

Passenger endorsement requires 10 hours PIC time + a flight test. If you do any solo flying once you've received your RPC then these hours count towards this total, along with any PIC hours you already obtained getting your RPC/Cross country endorsement.

 

If you can't afford $12-13k to do the training then there's no point getting a license anyway, how are you going to afford to fly afterwards? Ongoing costs can be significant even just to stay current.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Agamemnon
Added extra info

[spacesailor]

Passenger endorsement is rediculouse.

ALL TRAINEES start with a passenger & have to keep that ' passenger ' untill SOLO is achieved.

spacesailor

[skippydiesel]

37 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

Passenger endorsement is rediculouse.

ALL TRAINEES start with a passenger & have to keep that ' passenger ' untill SOLO is achieved.

spacesailor

Absolutely agree - should just be awarded as part of basic training - no additional cost

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Agamemnon said:

A cross-country endorsement requires a minimum of 10 hours dual + 2 hours solo + a flight test. So the cost is roughly based on that plus other purchases including maps, flight computer etc. Whats with this minimum 10 hrs ? - demonstrable proficiency should be the criteria, not hours

 

Passenger endorsement requires 10 hours PIC time + a flight test. If you do any solo flying once you've received your RPC then these hours count towards this total, along with any PIC hours you already obtained getting your RPC/Cross country endorsement.

 

If you can't afford $12-13k to do the training then there's no point getting a license anyway, how are you going to afford to fly afterwards? Ongoing costs can be significant even just to stay current. I have heard this elitist statement befor - are you a charity that you can give money away on request?

The earning of Pilots license/certificate should never be based on hours, always on proficiency.

Some, like myself, took well over 20 hrs to achieve our PPL, others do it in less than half the time (& cost).

Of course the money matters, as it should. Most of us want to feel we have received good value for are hard earned dollars and start to feel there may be some sort of a rort going on, when it is suggested that minimum hrs become the main critter for achieving an endorsement.

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

Passenger endorsement is rediculouse.

ALL TRAINEES start with a passenger & have to keep that ' passenger ' untill SOLO is achieved.

spacesailor

As you've previously pointed out that "passenger", the instructor, has additional training to save you when you inadvertently screw up during the learning phase, and even after you go solo, is there for quite some time observing and teaching you to fly safely. You might not realise it unless your instructor tells you everything he is doing or thinking, but during the passenger endorsement phase he's there to ensure you're probably not going to kill the passenger by a HF mistake,  whether the passenger is throwing up, pulling knobs, or talking while you are entering the ciruit etc.

 

[Thruster88]

It is a complete mystery how PPL's manage without a passenger endorsement with multiple passengers.  

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

It is a complete mystery how PPL's manage without a passenger endorsement with multiple passengers.  

I understand what you're saying, but count the hours up for PPL where you're doing Nav, 2 hours under the hood etc and effectively you've covered the passenger segment anyway.

In RA plenty of people will tell you they did the training all at once and got through the basic RPC in the minimum hours.

They're different processes looking for different outcomes with different instructors and different administration systems. People looking to minimise training costs couple them together and try to pick the plums, but it's a bit like tennis and golf - both ball sports, but you can't pluck bits from one ad graft it on to the other.

[APenNameAndThatA]

7 hours ago, spacesailor said:

Passenger endorsement is rediculouse.

ALL TRAINEES start with a passenger & have to keep that ' passenger ' untill SOLO is achieved.

spacesailor

I actually learnt a lot.  

[facthunter]

I would think so if the process was done properly.. In retrospect, I think the PPL might be a bit neglectful in this area.. Passengers are more than self loading cargo.. They have to be managed, informed and kept happy and not affect the safety of flight or become preventably injured. Nev

[turboplanner]

19 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I would think so if the process was done properly.. In retrospect, I think the PPL might be a bit neglectful in this area.. Passengers are more than self loading cargo.. They have to be managed, informed and kept happy and not affect the safety of flight or become preventably injured. Nev

I received training in passenger management as part of the PPL.

[Geoff_H]

I did not get any passenger in my PPL when I did it in the early 80's.  It came intuitively.  I had a few times that I had to exercise it.  I took a first ever flight passenger.  I was worried what his reaction would be, worked out a way to get immediate clearance to land without him being worried by the request.  He loved the flight, even the 60deg steep turn I did.

I do however remember when learning outfield emergencies that it was an outfield landing, not a crash landing in my passenger brief. Maybe that constitutes passenger management.

[turboplanner]

43 minutes ago, Geoff_H said:

I did not get any passenger in my PPL when I did it in the early 80's.  It came intuitively.  I had a few times that I had to exercise it.  I took a first ever flight passenger.  I was worried what his reaction would be, worked out a way to get immediate clearance to land without him being worried by the request.  He loved the flight, even the 60deg steep turn I did.

I do however remember when learning outfield emergencies that it was an outfield landing, not a crash landing in my passenger brief. Maybe that constitutes passenger management.

Probably a slack instructor.

[Agamemnon]

On 21/01/2022 at 11:26 AM, skippydiesel said:

The earning of Pilots license/certificate should never be based on hours, always on proficiency.

Some, like myself, took well over 20 hrs to achieve our PPL, others do it in less than half the time (& cost).

Of course the money matters, as it should. Most of us want to feel we have received good value for are hard earned dollars and start to feel there may be some sort of a rort going on, when it is suggested that minimum hrs become the main critter for achieving an endorsement.

The ultimate requirement to receive the RPC & endorsements is of course proficiency, and the minimum hours are a secondary requirement. No matter how many hours you do you will not be given your ticket until you can demonstrate the required criteria. So I'm not sure what your point is here?

 

Also I can't understand how you think this is an 'elitist statement'? Flying costs considerable money, that's a fact. It's the hard truth but if you can't afford to fly semi-regularly than you won't be able to make the most of having a licence. Safety depends on retaining adequate flying skills. Of course you can take a break, but you will need to pay for an instructor to build proficiency again.

[RossK]

When I did my passenger endorsement I was able to do it with my regular instructor. We did it on a day we had planned to do a Nav but the weather wasn't suitable.

I remember him getting in the plane and fidgeting uncharacteristically with his seat belt, vents etc and then he went to fiddle with the radio.

I told him not to touch anything on the dash unless i specifically intructed him how to.

He looked at me and replied "I'm not testing you yet, the radio's on the wrong frequency" 🤣

I passed 😁

[Geoff_H]

All this passenger thing is a crock of......  It is somewhat intuitive, more important is cockpit management in case of emergency, I have used it once and should have on possibly my worst landing ever in front of a control tower.  More important is landing without an ASI, I have had to do it twice.  I was not prepared the first time on a relatively short runway, second time on a long runway.  No GPS on first but GPS on second.