Jabiru doors off

[Pindan]

Hi,

 

Has anyone ever flown their 230 without the doors?

[FlyBoy1960]

They are a structural part when closed.  I was told the fuse will flex way too much without doors.  In doubt ?   Ask the factory.

Edited February 5, 2022 by FlyBoy1960

[kgwilson]

I've unlatched the doors in forced landing training. I didn't notice any change. The jabiru airframe is one of the strongest around so I reckon it should be OK. But I'd check with the factory first. Removing the doors from Cessnas is common practice when throwing meat bombers out.

[facthunter]

They only  remove the rhs door and it causes buffeting  in the cabin, sometimes It has "approval" status and a finger just at the front into the airstream will stop the buffeting as would a clothes peg or such.  I've never seen or heard of a jab flying with a door or doors off.. I've flown a Gazelle with the left door off.  Better off than just latched open (up) .  Nev

[walrus]

If the aircraft is approved to fly with doors removed then the manufacturer will say so. If it doesn't, it isn't.

[Yenn]

Not only is structural strength an important consideration, but the aerodynamic effects have to be considered.

By all means give it a try without the manufacturers blessing, but remember you are going to be a test pilot.

All it really needs is to contact Jabiru and seek their approval.

[Jabiru7252]

I don't believe the doors offer any extra structural support and you don't have to unlatch them in a forced landing, even locked you can just push the doors open, they are that flexible.

[turboplanner]

The Jabiru moves at full GA speed, so aerodynamic forces on it no different to a Cessna 172 - a LOT of pressure per sqare metre applied differently to the closed door profile. I'd recommend writing to Jabiru for approval.

[APenNameAndThatA]

On 5/2/2022 at 6:31 PM, FlyBoy1960 said:

They are a structural part when closed.  I was told the fuse will flex way too much without doors.  In doubt ?   Ask the factory.

😬

[Pindan]

I spoke to Jabiru.  The dors are not structural.  They have flown a 230 with the rear door off but never the front doors so can't tell me anything about it.

Has anyone flown other aircraft with and without doors and how does this change the characteristics of flight? 

[Yenn]

So Jabiru cannor recommend flying with the doors off. They didn't do the test flying with an expectation of anyone wanting to fly doors off, so as I said before, try it and you are a test pilot. Being a test pilot is not too bad. I have done it twice with planes I have never flown the type before.

[Old Koreelah]

My few test pilot sessions were stressful and taught me quite a bit of respect for those who do it for a living.
After several stall tests in various configurations I wimped out and now prefer more placid flying.

One flight test I never got around to doing is opening my canopy in flight. I designed it with that in mind and if I take off with it half open, air pressure slides it shut.
There is no pressing reason to try opening it in flight, so I’ll wimp out of that test as well. 

[onetrack]

I would imagine the buffeting would be your greatest single problem. The violence of the wind blasts inside the cabin will strip anything out of the cabin that is not secured.

I've ridden in a Robbie 44 with no doors at 100kts and the level of buffeting was quite amazing, particularly in the rear of the cabin.

[facthunter]

Buffeting may not involve wind circulating. The wind would affect you more if you weren't flying balanced and had both doors off. obviously but a Drifter is like flying with everything off roof and all. It's going to be an unknown. I once dropped someone out of the front seat of a tiger Moth and as HE stood up and climbed out the Plane was almost completely unmanageable. The entire tailfeathers were in turbulent air. requiring very large and positive control movements. to have any control  THAT could have been anticipated.   Nev

[Old Koreelah]

Opening the rear passenger windows in a modern car can result in very uncomfortable noise buffeting at a mere 50 knots.

[RFguy]

No, the jab doors are not structural. that little pin aint gonna do much on the flexi door.

But

I would venture down this road with extreme care.

WHy- because open cavities can generate VERY high level of INFRA sonic noise, very low frequencies, sufficient to cause vestibular disturbance, nausia  and disorientation

It's called a Helmholtz Resonator.

 

If you are going to try it, fly with doors off BOTH sides so the cavity doesnt get a high resonance up.

 

Maybe put something absorbant like a pile of blankets in the back .

-glen

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by RFguy

[facthunter]

A TAB about as big as a finger just below  where the bottom  of the RH edge of the windscreen projects to will fix it on a high wing Cessna .WE never removed the other door and I've never seen it done. Nev

[walrus]

If you try this, wear a parachute and good luck with your insurance policy.

 

You have no way of knowing what the effect will be. The big one for me would be altered airflow over the tail in a critical phase of flight but it could be anything from nothing through to catastrophic flutter.

[facthunter]

Yes, you really do not know and there's no point guessing unless you just go for the exciting life. What you subject a plane to affects it's condition sometimes permanently. Anything I've done along these lines wasn't a first and It had established precedent. Test pilots do wear a chute and DON'T carry passengers at the time of the test and usually have extra training. Nev

[Pindan]

Haha Thanks Everyone.

 

The reason i had asked is that i had a flight in a R44 with the doors of.  It reduced the Vne but was allowed and the vision was excellent. I thought if it had been done before in a 230 it would be great. 

I wont be test pilot for this experiment.

[Kenlsa]

My Colt has the STC for removing the door for flight. But…..

No bank over 30deg and absolutely no side slips.

Used for photography or throwing a parachutist out when my flying scares them I suppose.

 I can imagine the 60 year old cotton covering in a slip….Looking like a car airbag for a split second before disintegrating exposing the terrified pilot inside.

Ken

[Kenlsa]

This is what that would look like

[facthunter]

Your Baby originally had Butyrate fabric which is probably more durable than Nitrocellulose doped light canvas. The sun is pretty hard on everything though. 

   I've never had to throw "Chutists" OUT. For some reason they are eager to exit a perfectly good aeroplane. One door off on a Cessna only causes a mild pressure pulse at low frequency in the cabin easily stopped as I've described. But they are a proven quantity popular for dropping people from unless you want large numbers.

   Those who pay don't want you to waste time so the descent empty of chutists is as quick as can be done safely. I can't recall any reported problems at the time I was involved. Just keep chutes out of your Prop.   Nev

[facthunter]

There's an AD  to x-ray the fuselage  tubing near the rear of the door. Have you looked it up? Nev

[Kenlsa]

The AD had to be done, with the windscreen/spar carry thru tube, every few years  (3 then later 5) but has been removed in 2012 (from memory). Mine has few ADs due to later serial number, one of the last made. Before the removal it was done regularly at 3k per time.  Ouch.

with the fabric off I did an inspection anyway and all good.  Fortunately It has been housed in a hangar all its life.

Ken