ASI in MPH. Australia. Would you?

[skippydiesel]

5 hours ago, kgwilson said:

75 countires drive on the left & 165 on the right. All of our neighbours drive on the left. In Europe it is only the UK, Ireland, Malta, & Cyprus. Sweden used to but switched in 1967 as they are part of continental Europe & changing at the border became too much of a problem. None drive on the left in North America but most of Eastern Africa from Kenya to South Africa drive on the left (ex British colonies) but West Africa drive on the right (ex French colonies). In South America a lot of countries drove on the left & in Brasil in the early 20th century they drove on both sides in different districts but changed to driving on the right in 1928 when Portual that used to drive on the left changed to the right. Only Suriname & Guyana still drive on the left.

 

The only country to switch the other way is Samoa an original German colony. It switched to the left in 2009 to fit in with the rest of Oceania & as car imports came from Australia, NZ & Japan.

 

It won't make much difference in the future as it is much simpler to have left or right steering wheels in electric cars. I don't think for us & many countries they will ever change now. Gear shifting is becoming a thing of the past & anyway I'd sooner have my right hand on the steering wheel when changing gears & the accelerator near the right hand door. Not an issue now but remember bench seats when anyone in the front could put their foot on the accelerator in a LHD car.

 The mechanics are fairly straight forward; some suspension alignment changes a different rack & pinion or worm drive steering system - its the costs associated with instrument panel/dash board and safety/airbag changes that are the big hurdle.

[pmccarthy]

2 hours ago, spacesailor said:

The poms still mount their horses on the left, ( foot on the walkway, ) not on the roadway.

If an English cavalier, had his lady on his right, he couldn,t draw his sword to fend off an attacker .

spacesailor

 

PS: the poms had One queen for two French kings.

 

She must have been kept busy.

[pmccarthy]

2 hours ago, spacesailor said:

The poms still mount their horses on the left, ( foot on the walkway, ) not on the roadway.

If an English cavalier, had his lady on his right, he couldn,t draw his sword to fend off an attacker .

spacesailor

 

PS: the poms had One queen for two French kings.

 

She must have been kept busy.

[Flightrite]

It’s odd to see some cockpits set of for R/H seat Ops SP, I just don’t get that? 
some plane drivers really struggle to handle a plane in CMD from the L/H drivers seat, weird! 

[turboplanner]

6 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

 The mechanics are fairly straight forward; some suspension alignment changes a different rack & pinion or worm drive steering system - its the costs associated with instrument panel/dash board and safety/airbag changes that are the big hurdle.

The design and production costs are so high that General Motors has discontinued building in RHD.

The differences start in the body platform, steering column, battery carrier, exhaust system, wiring harness, and go from there to things like window controls, climate control plenums, swapping starter motor and alternator mounts etc.

 

Australia just doesn't have the volume of sales to justify stand along designs any more, so we will be pulling product from high volume RHD producers whether we like them or not.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

4 hours ago, turboplanner said:

The design and production costs are so high that General Motors has discontinued building in RHD.

The differences start in the body platform, steering column, battery carrier, exhaust system, wiring harness, and go from there to things like window controls, climate control plenums, swapping starter motor and alternator mounts etc.

 

Australia just doesn't have the volume of sales to justify stand along designs any more, so we will be pulling product from high volume RHD producers whether we like them or not.

 

 

I dont agree; With the exception of the instrument panel (which would include air conditioning control & delivery systems), I have seen cars (eg Mercedes W123 from the 1977-85) that have been designed, from the outset, to be  either L or R.

 

Sure many require radical changes but this is a decision or lack of, by the manufacture.  One good example of adaptable design is the windshield wipers - they should all be of the symmetrical centre out or single arm design. Window controls, dont have to be in the door arm rest, they can be centralised,  etc etc.

 

[Old Koreelah]

4 hours ago, turboplanner said:

The design and production costs are so high that General Motors has discontinued building in RHD.

The differences start in the body platform, steering column, battery carrier, exhaust system, wiring harness, and go from there to things like window controls, climate control plenums, swapping starter motor and alternator mounts etc.

 

Australia just doesn't have the volume of sales to justify stand along designs any more, so we will be pulling product from high volume RHD producers whether we like them or not.

 

 

Luckily for us, several car manufacturing nations drive on the same side we do: Japan, Thailand, India, Indonesia, Britain….

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

With the exception of the instrument panel (which would include air conditioning control & delivery systems), I have seen cars (eg Mercedes W123 from the 1977-85) that have been designed, from the outset, to be  either L or R.

In those days you could see down each side of the engine then; today electronics have been added to the non-symmetrical issues usually fitted high up on the opposit side to the battery.

 

Steering column assys are usually bought in and have the chassis mounting flanges on the RHS for a LHD car. Shift the column to the RHS and you don't have a mounting flange plus you probably have founing from a drain plug, and the existing column mounting flanges require other components to be moved to make new space.

 

In theory you should be able to turn the main electrical harness upside down, but it's not practical to shift some components becuse theres no room on the other side, so you need to extend some looms.

 

The handbrake that works comfortably in the centre console in LHD is non-ergonomic if you just leave it there in RHD so you have platform changes, spot welding changed, opposite-hand pressings to make, electrical offsets to gain opposite space etc.

 

The plenum chamber which takes advantage of no steering column and free passenger space has to be reverse designed and moulded.

 

I've just spent three weeks patiently cutting away in the RHS of the engine bay to fit a 700 CCA battery. The people who did the RHD conversion couldn't squeeze it in so they supplied a 400 CCA.

That and the fact that the battery was now on the opposite side to the starter motor, and required double the length of battery cable resulted in very unreliable starting. I found a way to get the big battery in, but had to cut and rebuild the plenum chamber, a new lower base plate assy and hold downs, slightly different mudguard angle and relocate about 30 autocables. In the process I discovered a missing fuse block which the converter had left behind the dash.

 

Ultimately it's a cost thing that has stopped the LHD manufacturers.

 

 

[spacesailor]

How does those ' odd ' car makers supply the wrong hand drive market !.

The same argument to change right to wrong hand drive must be the same.

BUT 

They still make English & Japanese cars for America.

spacesailor

[skippydiesel]

4 hours ago, turboplanner said:

In those days you could see down each side of the engine then; today electronics have been added to the non-symmetrical issues usually fitted high up on the opposit side to the battery.

 

Steering column assys are usually bought in and have the chassis mounting flanges on the RHS for a LHD car. Shift the column to the RHS and you don't have a mounting flange plus you probably have founing from a drain plug, and the existing column mounting flanges require other components to be moved to make new space.

 

In theory you should be able to turn the main electrical harness upside down, but it's not practical to shift some components becuse theres no room on the other side, so you need to extend some looms.

 

The handbrake that works comfortably in the centre console in LHD is non-ergonomic if you just leave it there in RHD so you have platform changes, spot welding changed, opposite-hand pressings to make, electrical offsets to gain opposite space etc.

 

The plenum chamber which takes advantage of no steering column and free passenger space has to be reverse designed and moulded.

 

I've just spent three weeks patiently cutting away in the RHS of the engine bay to fit a 700 CCA battery. The people who did the RHD conversion couldn't squeeze it in so they supplied a 400 CCA.

That and the fact that the battery was now on the opposite side to the starter motor, and required double the length of battery cable resulted in very unreliable starting. I found a way to get the big battery in, but had to cut and rebuild the plenum chamber, a new lower base plate assy and hold downs, slightly different mudguard angle and relocate about 30 autocables. In the process I discovered a missing fuse block which the converter had left behind the dash.

 

Ultimately it's a cost thing that has stopped the LHD manufacturers.

 

 

As I understand you you are saying, in short, cars have become even more L or R centric than ever befor. You may be correct, if so this just makes my opinion that the World needs to standardise,  preferably right hand drive (cause they are the majority) and metric measurements, again majority, simplest and most logical measurement system to date.

Edited March 8, 2022 by skippydiesel

[turboplanner]

3 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

As I understand you you are saying, in short, cars have become even more L or R centric than ever befor. You may be correct, if so this just makes my opinion that the World needs to standardise,  preferably right hand drive (cause they are the majority) and metric measurements, again majority, simplest and most logical measurement system to date.

Yes, then we can all have the Offset windscreen wipers, angled instruments, and "all-model" production lines where Robotics allow the production line to build a different model every 20 seconds or so, because 10,000 robots can weld, drill seal, pick parts and install without having to scratch their heads, so car costs would come down. We actually made the changeover from giving way to a car turning right as we were about to turn left, in 24 hours and anyone who has driven a LHD car in the US knows, that you pretty much handle it 10 minutes after leaving the airport, if you've studied the rules, so no big deal. At this stage there's no great incentive to make the switch in Australia though.

[Old Koreelah]

I’d like to see the world standardise on metrics and driving on the left;

two changes the yanks will refuse to make!

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

I’d like to see the world standardise on metrics and driving on the left;

two changes the yanks will refuse to make!

Yeah! When great powers are on the rise they are to belligerent to take the logical rout. When plateaued , to full of their own importance to listen to logic. When in decline, so insecure they hold on to every bad characteristic, as a talisman that will restore their greatness.

[Flightrite]

Some of you guys are hanging too tight there😂😂😂😉 

[onetrack]

The biggest single problem with the reasoning behind a lot of these decisions, it is usually done to distance the country from former "colonial" masters - not because of any valid and carefully-studied reasons. Or the colonial masters made the decision for the other country, and it then becomes too hard to reverse it.

The Americans will never go metric because their hatred of anything of French origin is tangible.

[danny_galaga]

On 08/03/2022 at 4:14 AM, turboplanner said:

 

 

Australia just doesn't have the volume of sales to justify stand along designs any more, so we will be pulling product from high volume RHD producers whether we like them or not.

 

 

Like Japan and India. We should be ok for RHD  

[skippydiesel]

On 09/02/2022 at 6:49 PM, facthunter said:

...............................A ribbon is the quickest thing to interpret.. . Nev

I dont doubt the veracity of your comment. The  "ribbon"  type of instrument scale was quit popular in cars,  in my youth, especially those from continental Europe. The trend did not last all that long (some outliers persisted )however it would seem that for the most part people preferer clock/dial type instruments.

I would suggest its the system you have trained yourself fort that you will be the quickest on and most comfortable with.

Further I speculate that conversion from one representation to another, will almost inevitably result in a degree of psychological "difficulty", which would make people resistant to change.

[spacesailor]

There is No logic in metric !.

Put a person on a desert island, & they automatkcly revert ba k to theold system.

Turn a handle , you suddenly forget ' mister Hertz ' 

No tape measure , no problem,  use ' hand '  or ' foot ',

And the same with every measurement , half a whole ( ' hole ' also ), half that & were back to fractions and not a milimetre will be found.

I mean who in this country ( in this world )  will have the Atomic ' guage ' to measure those metric numbers.

Fair go, they ' system International . Paris France ' will have you All talking their language.

Germany and japan lost their war And their metric type system,  DIN , & bu,sun system .

If the Axis had won ???????????.

spacesailor

[turboplanner]

17 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

I dont doubt the veracity of your comment. The  "ribbon"  type of instrument scale was quit popular in cars,  in my youth, especially those from continental Europe. The trend did not last all that long (some outliers persisted )however it would seem that for the most part people preferer clock/dial type instruments.

I would suggest its the system you have trained yourself fort that you will be the quickest on and most comfortable with.

Further I speculate that conversion from one representation to another, will almost inevitably result in a degree of psychological "difficulty", which would make people resistant to change.

Interesting subject, as we know, some of us sometimes do our checks, even touch the gauges as we do them, and something happens where we then look at the gauge and the result shows we clearly hadn't been absorbing what we saw.

With the engine management systems in today's cars, I'd suggest most drivers have gravitated to watching the speedo only, and that's because of camera pain.

I'm currently updating a truck design programme and for the last couple of years have been working on Tautliners, Prime Movers, B Doubles and Road Trains. Today I checked out a tipper, and found I'd forgotten to input the front wall, the hydraulic hoist, and whether the hoist was internal or external, which resulted in a substantial error in the end result.

The input fields were all showing for those things; I'd just failed to see them, so I'm going to input sub-"plates" which will require ticks.

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

There is No logic in metric !.

Put a person on a desert island, & they automatkcly revert ba k to theold system.

Turn a handle , you suddenly forget ' mister Hertz ' 

No tape measure , no problem,  use ' hand '  or ' foot ',

And the same with every measurement , half a whole ( ' hole ' also ), half that & were back to fractions and not a milimetre will be found.

I mean who in this country ( in this world )  will have the Atomic ' guage ' to measure those metric numbers.

Fair go, they ' system International . Paris France ' will have you All talking their language.

Germany and japan lost their war And their metric type system,  DIN , & bu,sun system .

If the Axis had won ???????????.

spacesailor

No logic? 

 

Nature is, to my limited understanding, quite random (until you get to the atomic level) so feet, hands, paces, perceptions of temperature, etc and derivatives thereof, are all variable from the conceptual/onset stage and as we now find, end up with a non linear fractional & expanded measurements. Might have served our distant ancestors (& a castaway )well but are, in my mind, completely redundant now.

 

Your preoccupation with the French suggests a level of tribal irrationality. I care not who invented or determined the metric system, it is far superior to the imperial on every level. 

 

I have yet to meet a single user of the imperial system (aircraft), who does not have to almost continually refer back to "crib" sheets/computer to be certain of the correct measurement/expression of aircraft fixings/hardware. The system may just get by when you are in larger measurements (builders, plumbers & the like) but is a crock of excrement in most other situations.

 

I spent a short few years in Canada (similar mixed metric/imperial mishmash to Australia)  - for Gods sake they were still measuring grain in "bushels". I take it you understand how completely stupid a bushel measurement is?

 

[spacesailor]

It was ,

PERFECT! ,

For those eons that humans had to carry everything on their back, never use a ' bushel ' for sand !. You will suffer a bad back. LoL

Thats why so on many crazy measurements are illogical now, ( we have mechanism,s to do our lifting ).

The newest ( should be in atheist ) , we now have lots of Births, without the original SIN !.

PS: GOD FORBID

spacesailor

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by spacesailor
More added

[cherk]

And then there was the hundred-weight ! 112 pound back breaker ( now 50kg 😝)

Edited March 9, 2022 by cherk
pluralistic

[turboplanner]

I conducted a survey on current morist use of car instruments this morning. My wife said she uses the speedo, GPS zone speed limit, outside temperature, and the odometer to see how far the car has gone. And, as an afterthought, the fuel gauge.

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by turboplanner

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, spacesailor said:

It was ,

PERFECT! ,

For those eons that humans had to carry everything on their back, never use a ' bushel ' for sand !. You will suffer a bad back. LoL

Thats why so on many crazy measurements are illogical now, ( we have mechanism,s to do our lifting ).

The newest ( should be in atheist ) , we now have lots of Births, without the original SIN !.

PS: GOD FORBID

spacesailor

 

Wow! I just love the thread drift - SIN!!!!

 

Spacesailer , this is RELIGION, one of the big no no's (I just love your tangential thought process and sin, of course)

[ClintonB]

On 08/03/2022 at 7:04 PM, turboplanner said:

Yes, then we can all have the Offset windscreen wipers, angled instruments, and "all-model" production lines where Robotics allow the production line to build a different model every 20 seconds or so, because 10,000 robots can weld, drill seal, pick parts and install without having to scratch their heads, so car costs would come down. We actually made the changeover from giving way to a car turning right as we were about to turn left, in 24 hours and anyone who has driven a LHD car in the US knows, that you pretty much handle it 10 minutes after leaving the airport, if you've studied the rules, so no big deal. At this stage there's no great incentive to make the switch in Australia though.

I’ve done it in Hawaii, but when you are the only one in a car park moving, it gets confusing with no one to follow. 
the road traffic islands and ramps would be a huge burden to change cost wise, driving on the opposite side is the easy bit, the controls being on the correct side for the road lane makes it feel natural.