Stalls are more scary than spins.

[APenNameAndThatA]

If you spin, no problem, you just recover. If you stall, a catastrophe might happen: you might spin.

 

The above is my literal opinion and is *partially* because stalls are initially done in aircraft not rated for spins.  

[Thruster88]

If you use your feet to stop the nose going left or right while stalling the aircraft cannot spin. Tail dragger pilots do this subconsciously.  

[rgmwa]

A stall is only scary if you’re too low to recover. 

[kgwilson]

But not scary when you are very low because you just land.

[APenNameAndThatA]

On 23/2/2022 at 8:46 PM, rgmwa said:

A stall is only scary if you’re too low to recover. 

They are most scary before you do them, in my experience. Your milage may vary, of course. Or if your flying instructor does one against your wishes. I seriously considered backhanding him the face. 

[rgmwa]

25 minutes ago, APenNameAndThatA said:

They are most scary before you do them, in my experience. Your milage may vary, of course. Or if your flying instructor does one against your wishes. I seriously considered backhanding him the face. 

I practice stalls regularly so don't find them scary because I have a pretty good idea of what's likely to happen. On the other hand you seem to have had a good go at spins, which I haven't, so they would be disorienting for me until I'd had enough practice to feel confident I could recover safely. Really, the scary stalls or spins are the ones that may happen when you don't expect them, and when you may be in a situation where the outcome won't be good.  Luckily, so far that hasn't happened to me.

 

[facthunter]

A plane will recover from a stall by itself if it's normally loaded and configured. Some planes will recover from a spin by itself but you can't rely on  it. A spin is called AUTO rotation and the plane may stay in it till it hits the ground and subject to type characteristics may experience unpredictable variances in ability to recover.. Individual planes have different ROD's in a spin which are constant  once the plane has settled into the spin. Recovery techniques vary also.  IF the plane is spin certified the recovery should be in the POH.

  Otherwise the plane may be placarded INTENTIONAL SPINS Prohibited..  THAT doesn't mean it can't get into one but it does mean you are in unchartered territory IF you do..Nev

[djpacro]

2 minutes ago, facthunter said:

 Recovery techniques vary also.  IF the plane is spin certified the recovery should be in the POH.

All certified types must have the spin recovery method in the AFM and/or placarded.

 

For those types not approved for intentional spinning then that correct recovery method must be initiated within one turn to ensure recovery.

Interesting that most I encounter have a different spin recovery technique than types commonly used for spin training.

[Garfly]

1 minute ago, djpacro said:

Interesting that most I encounter have a different spin recovery technique than types commonly used for spin training.

Would you elaborate on that djp?

[Roundsounds]

On 23/2/2022 at 6:42 PM, APenNameAndThatA said:

If you spin, no problem, you just recover. If you stall, a catastrophe might happen: you might spin.

 

The above is my literal opinion and is *partially* because stalls are initially done in aircraft not rated for spins.  

If you are scared of stalling it must be through lack of understanding. There is very little to no chance of an aeroplane entering an unintentional spin to a properly trained pilot. Entry to an unintentional spin would be the result of incorrect control inputs during stall recovery, this would not happen to a properly trained / educated pilot.

You should see some instruction from a suitably experienced and qualified flight instructor to resolve your issue. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Roundsounds

[facthunter]

Most critical stalls are a result of instinctively pulling the stick back when the nose drops which seals your fate if you are low. Fear of stalls serves a purpose but is not the best  way around the issue.. Lets agree, the way they are taught leaves a lot to be desired, because it's NOT the situation where most "accidental" stalls occur. You can't afford to have "accidental"  stalls because it just shouldn't happen if you are going to be around long. That's a fact. whether you like it or not.. Nev

[Garfly]

32 minutes ago, Roundsounds said:

If you are scared of stalling it must be through lack of understanding. There is very little to no chance of an aeroplane entering an unintentional spin to a properly trained pilot. Entry to an unintentional spin would be the result of incorrect control inputs during stall recovery, this would not happen to a properly trained / educated pilot.

You should see some instruction from a suitably experienced and qualified flight instructor to resolve your issue. 

He's telling us that he has now progressed into aerobatic type training (upset recovery) and that even spinning, per se, is not an issue for him - in a suitable aircraft. To me, he's just admitting to a little quirk in his way of seeing/feeling things. I see no evidence that he lacks understanding (any more than the rest of us) or is in need of changing his instructor.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Garfly

[Bruce Tuncks]

What scares me is not the spin itself but the load on the wings during recovery. Ripping your wings off sure scares me. I actually knew a guy who died when his Nimbus 4 glider broke up  in a thermal in Nevada. It was thought that they had spun during thermalling, then ripped the wings off doing the recovery.

[facthunter]

There's no much load during the spin. Your speed is just around stall speed The recovery is what loads the plane. I spun the Citabria regularly and the "G" meter reads about 2.5 G in the dive pull out  Most airframes would cope with that. That's being as gentle as I can from about 3,000 feet. Nev

[djpacro]

7 hours ago, Garfly said:

Would you elaborate on that djp?

Compare the guidance from the FAA when certifying new aircraft per FAR 23, the Super Decathlon in which I teach spins and the Vixen. An inadvertent spin in a Vixen requires correct actions per its manual promptly rather than attempting a different method as one may have learnt in a Super Decathlon. If the manual states full forward yoke then don't expect halfway to be effective.

 

[djpacro]

I should’ve added: if you use the Vixen method in the Super Decathlon and it will not recover but instead transition to an inverted spin.

[Roundsounds]

5 hours ago, Garfly said:

He's telling us that he has now progressed into aerobatic type training (upset recovery) and that even spinning, per se, is not an issue for him - in a suitable aircraft. To me, he's just admitting to a little quirk in his way of seeing/feeling things. I see no evidence that he lacks understanding (any more than the rest of us) or is in need of changing his instructor.

Maybe I’m misreading Apen’s original post. He seems scared he might stall a non spin certified airplane and end up in a spin unintentionally. I stand by my comments regarding a lack of understanding of the aerodynamics associated with a spin entry. You would need to make deliberate control inputs to enter a spin. Don’t make those control inputs and you won’t spin, if you happen to apply the inputs required to enter a spin, know the inputs required to prevent the spin developing.

The concern around stalling / spinning displayed by the majority of pilots is the direct result of poor instruction. I’ve flown with many instructors over the years who are terrified of stalling, let alone spinning. A couple of flying schools who trained instructors sent their instructor candidates to me for the “advanced stalling” sequences because the instructor trainers wouldn’t deliver the training. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Roundsounds

[rgmwa]

Did my AFR today and was asked to do an incipient stall recovery in the landing configuration assuming I was low over the runway. Easy, I thought, so slowed down, lowered the flaps (flaperons), raised the nose, sat on the edge of a stall for a bit, let the nose drop and recovered as I usually do. Then he said, "if you do that at 50 feet, you might be in the dirt", or words to that effect. He had wanted me to recognise the start of a stall and recover without losing any height. It was a good lesson in listening properly to an instruction and being aware that automatic responses developed through practice are not always appropriate or safe.

 

[Garfly]

 

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I entered an accidental spin once. I was at 17,000 ft taking a photo through the clear-vision panel of a ventus glider. My eyes were at the camera and I was trying to frame the photo with the rudder pedals. So I dunno what the speeds etc were, but that ventus sure kicked into a spin. Bugger, thought I, my old mosquito would not have done this.

The spin turned into a spiral dive after half a turn, so pronounced was the pitch-down. Recovery was simply a matter of pulling out smoothly.

Nobody else was around and there was all the height in the world.

[Jabiru7252]

I did spin recovery and spiral dives in the Piper Tomahawk (PA38). I'd rather wash a horse down with my tongue that go through that again. Spirals were scariest because you could pull the wings off your plane if you panicked.

[danny_galaga]

Even a regular stall gives me the willies. I am not aerobatic material 😄 I only ever practice them with an instructor, which I am doing this wednesday weather and flooding permitting....

[Bruce Tuncks]

I agree Danny. Altitude is too expensive to just throw it away. But stalls at altitude are quite safe..  I have never tried to spin the Jabiru though.

Stalls in the Jabiru are a non-event if you sneak up on them gently. The plane just starts mushing along and I have been told that the rate of sink is about that from a ballistic chute.

[facthunter]

You have to "deal" with spirals and spins together especially under the hood. A spiral will build up speed and airframe loads fast. It was known as the "graveyard spiral". First thing you  do is IDENTIFY "Spin or Spiral"?. The recoveries are entirely different. Nev

[F10]

Unload....in any stall, spin, base leg stall, unload the wings (stick FWD).....the aircraft will fly again, it has no option but to fly again.... People in the circuit or close to the ground, or frightened....will instinctively pull back on the stick, back means...up...to safety....but unfortunately not in a stalled condition. Back now will mean...down....windshield full of brown instead of blue.....pants too!