2002 Cirrus SR22 up for auction, NE NSW, 18th March 2022.

[onetrack]

In the link below, there's a Cirrus SR22 up for auction, located at Bellata, NSW (between Narrabri and Moree) on 18th March 2022. The aircraft carries VH-OHH registration, but the auction house says it "requires certification".

I can only presume by that description, that its CoA has expired. Seems a little odd for this type of aircraft to have let a CoA lapse, but stranger things have happened.

 

It's powered with a Continental 10-550-N, 310 HP and fitted with Avidyne Flightmax (no model number mentioned), and a Garmin GMA340. It's done 900 hrs.

No other indications are given as to whether it's flyable (looks O.K. to me), has a ventilated block, been pranged, or whether someone stole it one time. You need to make your own inquiries, and do your own inspection/s.

It could be a distressed sale and a bargain, or it could have a serious reserve on it. Ritchie Bros used to be famous for "no reserve" auctions, but they appear to have modified that approach, and I now find they can often have reserved sale prices on the higher value items being auctioned.

 

https://www.rbauction.com/2002-cirrus-sr22-aircraft?invId=13012527&id=ci&auction=australia-ag-aus-2022298

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by onetrack

[Thruster88]

I think it just means it doesn't have a current maintenance release. Parachute could be time expired also.

[RossK]

Looks like its been in an open ended hangar for some time, going by this pic

Dirty SR22

[onetrack]

It certainly looks like you'd need to de-home a fair number of spiders and wasps, to get it airworthy again. 

[Flightrite]

I fail to understand what people see in the Cirrus machines? Expensive and seem to have plenty of engine issues, nah, an RV10 I’d jump on though👍

[skippydiesel]

On 02/03/2022 at 9:47 AM, RossK said:

Looks like its been in an open ended hangar for some time, going by this pic

Dirty SR22

Looks like a farm so lots of beasties, small & not so small will abound -doesnt take long for webbing spiders and bird dropping to appear.

 

Very low hours 

Edited March 3, 2022 by skippydiesel

[MattP]

On 02/03/2022 at 11:46 PM, Flightrite said:

I fail to understand what people see in the Cirrus machines? Expensive and seem to have plenty of engine issues, nah, an RV10 I’d jump on though👍

Speed

Comfort

Modern design and interior that comforts passengers and has a safety design from this century

Chute - love or hate it ticks spousal boxes and that can often justify the cost of entry

A/C

A/C

Did i mention air conditioning? 😉

 

Oh and maintenance, if you have to ask to can't afford it. 

 

You're making a comparison that isn't in line with the target buyer for cirrus. Rv10 is an awesome machine for those inclined that way either building or buying into the experimental community but cirrus is a lifestyle purchase or tool for business primarily,  and aimed at a similar market to bonanzas 50 years ago. 

 

 

[Flightrite]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

Speed

Comfort

Modern design and interior that comforts passengers and has a safety design from this century

Chute - love or hate it ticks spousal boxes and that can often justify the cost of entry

A/C

A/C

Did i mention air conditioning? 😉

 

Oh and maintenance, if you have to ask to can't afford it. 

 

You're making a comparison that isn't in line with the target buyer for cirrus. Rv10 is an awesome machine for those inclined that way either building or buying into the experimental community but cirrus is a lifestyle purchase or tool for business primarily,  and aimed at a similar market to bonanzas 50 years ago. 

 

 

Seriously overrated they are! 

[facthunter]

The Chute's not an option.  It's a requirement.  Nev

[Thruster88]

Top selling piston aircraft for about the last 20 years. They must be doing something right.

[facthunter]

At one stage there were plenty of used ones for sale in the states also. Nev

[KRviator]

As I'm just down the road and need a 4-seater, I called the agent about this one. He said the owner is hoping to get $200K in his sky-rocket (!), which, after factoring in GST and agents fees, means this particular Cirrus will need to achieve a sale price of at least $235,000!  The agent actually asked me what I thought and I told him without knowing the maintenance (at that time, they didn't have the logs), and assuming worse case everything, $100-125K. Turns out I wasn't far wrong when I assumed the worst!! If you have a look at the maintenance paperwork that they've published, she hasn't flown since 2014! The last annual was around September that year, IIRC. The parachute ($40K), rocket, linecutters ($3-5K), both alternators, prop ($10-15K), engine hoses, control cables, brake lines, and a swag other gear needs overhaul or replacement too - and we haven't even considered how the engine is, after sitting for 8 years uninhibited - I don't even want to think what an IO-360 overhaul is these days! Pretty much everything is out of time. 

I would be genuinely surprised if you could get her "officially" airworthy again for less than $100K! Not to mention the delay associated with doing so...

Given 2002/3 vintage SR22's have been going for the $250-280 range - and they've all been airworthy with decent, if not "good" component times, I reckon the agent's been led up the garden path and the owner is nuts to even think he'll get close to that. She's - at most - a $125,000 bird and anyone who bids above that is as nutty as the owner, IMHO. And that's assuming a LAME will sign off on a SFP to get her out of there...

Edited March 13, 2022 by KRviator

[Thruster88]

I think he will get 200k, someone out there will be prepared to take the risk on the engine which has 1300 hours to run in private ops. Parachute is still current so getting a permit to fly should not be a problem. Budget parachute, cylinders if required and other items it will still be a very cheap sr22.

[MattP]

I agree - although not from any logical standpoint, the market for used aircraft is like houses at the moment, logic and the actual cost to own them aren't taken into account by most people buying it would seem. 

 

Someone will buy it and spend the coin, and well good luck to them.

 

Used SR22's aren't 250-280k any more, there isn't much out there below 350k. SR20's are in the low to mid 300's. 

 

From memory the chute repack is also different G1 to G2, and there may be some differences should you want to upgrade the 6 pack / sandel to glass - ie you can't just drop in an avidyne from memory and the SR22 isn't on the G3x STC list, I think you'd need to go g500txi or Aspen.

 

once you'd gotten it flying again.

 

On the bright side you can repaint it in one of the Cirrus copyright colour schemes with permission, so it will look pretty 😉

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by MattP

[KRviator]

27 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

I think he will get 200k, someone out there will be prepared to take the risk on the engine which has 1300 hours to run in private ops. Parachute is still current so getting a permit to fly should not be a problem. Budget parachute, cylinders if required and other items it will still be a very cheap sr22.

True, parachute is good for another few months, but everything else?

If she sells for $200, that's still $235K after fees, plus parachute and outstanding maintenance items. You'd be better off buying a more expensive, albeit flying and current Cirrus, at least then you're starting with a known standard.

The logbook statement for this one says "IAW Cirrus maintenance manual" so those things that are life-limited (brake lines, alternators, etc) can't be deferred or done 'on condition' as Schedule 5 might allow. Or can they? My memory of the MPC is if you specify a system of maintenance, (ie the Cirrus MM) and that has time limits, then that's what you go by 'till death do us part' - but I ain't a LAME...

[Flightrite]

There’s plenty of NQR plane drivers out there so getting $200+K wouldn’t surprise me one bit, shear stupidity is all!

[Thruster88]

43 minutes ago, Flightrite said:

There’s plenty of NQR plane drivers out there so getting $200+K wouldn’t surprise me one bit, shear stupidity is all!

I think all aircraft owners are a bit eccentric. If the aircraft had been in annual for the last 8 years and flown say 200 hours would any part of it except the cylinders be in better condition?  Being composite removes the big fear for aircraft buyers.  

[KRviator]

Over $50K with a bit under 3 days to go.  

I think I'll pass...

[Thruster88]

4 hours ago, KRviator said:

Over $50K with a bit under 3 days to go.  

I think I'll pass...

Keep us posted, I tried to register without success. They don't seem to accept mobile numbers. The government has more user friendly websites.  

[onetrack]

Their website is a convoluted shambles, and I find their whole operation runs along the same lines. For a company that has been in business as long as they have, it seems like they've appointed amateurs to run their Australian division.

You have to keep logging into their site, re-identify yourself every time, agree to their T's&C's again every time you re-enter, then re-enter the auction, then re-enter the "timed auction" again - it's simply bloody painful.

Then the items are scattered like confetti through the system, with adjoining items having widely varying lot numbers. Their mobile app is even worse, you can virtually only track items you've bid on.

 

I've bought a few things off them and got some bargains - but I'm sure that was because no other potential buyer could find the items, or keep track of the bidding on them.

Even when you do buy something, their people in their yards have no idea where it is, or can identify it. You're likely to be asked if it's the Lear jet you bought, and can you point it out?, when you go to pick up the Cirrus!

 

Of course, you must all realise, mustn't you, that the final selling price of the Cirrus could be highly dependent on whether the fuel tanks are full or empty? Full tanks could see an additional $20,000 in the bid prices, on current fuel prices! 

[KRviator]

In the 80's now and getting close to my maximum limit - but I've no doubt it'll skyrocket as it gets closer to hammer time. Auctions like this always do.

Incidentally, I had an "interesting" call from some manager at RB Auctions yesterday. Apparently the owner saw a comment I had made on the RB Auctions FB page - they've now removed it in what I consider an underhanded attempt to hide just what needs doing, but it's their page and their measure of integrity I guess - regarding just how much work is going to be involved in getting it airworthy as well as the cost of doing so and wasn't very pleased about them. As I said to the manager-type "I'm not the one who left a quarter-million-dollar airplane rot for 8 years! The logs are what they are, you can't fudge what needs doing, this isn't a Holden Commodore where you can ignore the service recommendations, the logbook statement means the maintenance requirements are set in stone and must be complied with, and to do that in the current environment is likely to be extraordinarily expensive. And given you've not published the latest MR, there could well be more that needs to be done!"

Apparently I've also been "Talking to another bidder" about the plane too that they're not happy with (mind you, I haven't - nor do I know anyone else who's even likely to bid on it!) unless someone here on RF is also bidding on it, but meh. My comments aren't meant to try to drive the final price down, though they may well do so, but they are meant to highlight to a reader that you are not simply going to be paying your $$ and flying away without some serious work and that 'work' is likely to be very expensive. If you have a problem with that kind of mindset....

Edited March 16, 2022 by KRviator

[Flightrite]

I didn’t think you were in yr 80’s KR?😉I wouldn’t be too concerned with the idiot who contacted you being butt hurt, it’s a public auction and advertised on public forums/places, let the moron sweat!😂

Edited March 17, 2022 by Flightrite

[KRviator]

13 hours ago, Flightrite said:

I didn’t think you were in yr 80’s KR?😉I wouldn’t be too concerned with the idiot who contacted you being butt hurt, it’s a public auction and advertised on public forums/places, let the moron sweat!😂

I'll pay that! But I'm still along ways off my 80's - hence why I thought I'd bid on it. 😆 She's over the ton now and still going up.

The KRviatrix isn't too keen on me bidding again on something I didn't get a chance to physically inspect - again, due to RB Auction's failure to call me back to organise a time with the owner. But meh. I'd still prefer a tip-tanked Comanche or Deb over a Cirrus, the only thing they have going for them is the 'chute for SE NVFR or IMC. IMHO, their "all electric" architecture is a limiting feature as it means you can't install a G3X or Dynon EFIS in them without an EO, there's no Cirrus on the AML for either of those STC's.

[KRviator]

$148K, with an hour to run. Someone obviously sees more in it that I do! Or can get cheap Cirrus parts...😆

[KRviator]

SOLD! 

For $237,500 AUD  - which, after the 7.5% fee plus GST means someone has just paid $281,000 for an unairworthy Cirrus! Fuggen'ell.  

Personally, I'd prefer something like this Mooney Ovation that you can pickup for under $200K, and have another $100K to install a full Dynon/Garmin EFIS suite in. Each to their own I guess, but good luck and congratulations to the high bidder. I hope they enjoy their new toy!
 

Edited March 18, 2022 by KRviator