World's largest cargo plane 'destroyed'

[red750]

Russia has "destroyed" the world's biggest cargo plane, Antonov-225 Mriya, according to Ukrainian authorities, who have vowed to rebuild the aircraft.

 

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-28/world-s-largest-plane-destroyed-in-ukraine-authorities-say/100868428

[RossK]

Antonov actually have a second AN-225 that was never finished.

Unfinished AN-225

Photo from a CNN article in 2018

Edited March 1, 2022 by RossK

[RossK]

It's gone, I dont understand why they would detroy it. surely a plane that can move 5 tanks around the country at 800km/h would have been an asset?

 

[red750]

43 minutes ago, RossK said:

It's gone, I dont understand why they would detroy it.

Because Putin is a criminal nut case. Look at the senseless destruction he is causing throughout Ukraine.

[onetrack]

The problem lies with poorly-trained artillery troops who cannot accurately position their shells on targets. However, many a time in war, artillery is simply fired in a general direction to provide a terror effect.

Howitzers are the actual weapon used for lobbing artillery shells over long distances.

 

Placing artillery fire accurately is a highly defined skill brought up to a high level by intensive training. Artillerymen are chosen for their maths skills as firing artillery accurately involves extremely complex maths calculations to be able to land shells on enemy positions, without landing them on your own troops, when close-quarter fighting is involved.

 

An initial ranging shot is usually fired about 100M further away from the requested artillery fire position, to ensure initial "rough" accuracy.

Howitzer barrel angles are then repositioned to bring the fire closer to the target, and good artillery pieces can lob shells within a 50M range over 10km or more.

Artillerymen even have to take into account the movement of the Earth as it rotates when they fire, as the shell spends quite a bit of time in travel through the air before it lands, and the Earth has moved in the meantime.

[kgwilson]

Artillery accuracy goes back a long way. in 1943 a single British 25 pounder destroyed the 3 leading Panzer tanks when it was mounted on high ground near Sidi Nasir in Tunisia during that battle. In total some 40 German tanks were lost during that battle including 8 new Tigers that were blown up by their crews when they were disabled by mines. 

 

I can't see how the earths rotation can alter artillery fire as the atmosphere moves with the earth. Only wind can change the trajectory as artillery shells do not get out of the atmosphere.

[onetrack]

Kevin, the Coriolis effect is what affects artillery shell travel over long distances. Not so important over short distances, but the effect is noticeable at long range. The 105mm Howitzer has a range of 11.7kms.

The M198 155mm Howitzer has a range of 18kms with standard shells, and up to 30kms with armour-piercing shells.

 

https://www.military.com/equipment/m198-howitzer#:~:text=The howitzer's maximum range is,WWII era M114 155mm howitzer.

 

https://socratic.org/questions/does-the-rotation-of-the-earth-have-any-effect-upon-artillery-fire

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by onetrack

[kgwilson]

I forgot about the Coriolis effect so that makes sense. So they would have to make adjustments left or right depending upon the number of degrees either side of East or West.

[Old Koreelah]

During The Great War, German gunners had to allow for earth’s rotation as they fired at Paris.

 

The gun was capable of firing a 106-kilogram shell to a range of 130 kilometres and a maximum altitude of 42.3 km —the greatest height reached by a human-made projectile until the first successful V-2 flight test in October 1942. At the start of its 182-second trajectory,^[1]: 33 each shell from the Paris Gun reached a speed of 1,640 m/s (5,904 km/h).

 

The distance was so far that the Coriolis effect—the rotation of the Earth—was substantial enough to affect trajectory calculations.

 

It took about three minutes for each giant shell to cover the distance to the city, climbing to an altitude of 40 km at the top of its trajectory. This was by far the highest point ever reached by a man-made object, so high that gunners, in calculating where the shells would land, had to take into account the rotation of the Earth. For the first time in warfare, deadly projectiles rained down on civilians from the stratosphere. This reduced drag from air resistance, allowing the shell to achieve a range of over 130 kilometres.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Gun

[Garfly]

 

 

 

[Student Pilot]

To save me sitting through 40 minutes of monotone, why wasn't it? From what perspective was it reported on? 
Thanks Captain Gazza 😁

[kgwilson]

So management disappeared to save their skins, the engine was replaced the day before the war but there was no-one left to make a decision & presumably find the money for the flight. I think he's right. The airline management will all go, a new airline will rise like the phoenix & grab all of the impounded Antonovs & raise the funds to rebuild 1 Mriya from the good bits of the old destroyed one and the partially built one. Ukraine has to win the war first though.

Edited April 18, 2022 by kgwilson

[onetrack]

The latest news is that Antonov have decided to plan for a complete new AN-225, utilising about 30% of the available parts from either the bombed AN-225, or perhaps the second unfinished AN-225 airframe.

 

The project is still in the "design phase", says Zelinskyy, and contrary to recent reports, a "go-ahead" to actually build a new aircraft has not been given, because the current priority is on winning the War, and then seeking out global financing for the expected 500M Euro build cost. The Ukrainians are also talking about making Russia pay for the rebuild - but I'd have to opine that that is going to be difficult, unless they confiscate some Russian assets.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/largest-cargo-plane-antonov-mriya-ukraine-russia-rebuilt-2022-11

 

https://www.aviation24.be/manufacturers/antonov/an-225-mriya/antonov-to-rebuild-worlds-biggest-cargo-plane-the-an-225-mriya-at-a-cost-of-500-million/

 

https://www.heavyliftpfi.com/sectors/antonov-airlines-stands-united/21745.article

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by onetrack

[Old Koreelah]

Whilever the factory is in range of Russian missiles, investing is going to be a risk.

That what Putin wants.

[Garfly]

10 minutes ago, onetrack said:

The Ukrainians are also talking about making Russia pay for the rebuild - but I'd have to opine that that is going to be difficult, unless they confiscate some Russian assets.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/un-general-assembly-calls-russia-make-reparations-ukraine-2022-11-14/

[onetrack]

Unfortunately, the U.N.'s ability and record to carry out things it wants done, is highly deficient - and the structure of the U.N. is what works against it, with the constant vetoing ability of the worlds worst rogue nations, coming into play constantly.

[Garfly]

 

24 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Unfortunately, the U.N.'s ability and record to carry out things it wants done, is highly deficient - and the structure of the U.N. is what works against it, with the constant vetoing ability of the worlds worst rogue nations, coming into play constantly.

 

True, but that General Assembly resolution may be taken as justification enough for having those frozen Russian assets redirected (by the countries holding them) towards Ukraine's reconstruction. 

 

This quote from that article might not be too far off the mark:

'Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, now deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, said on the Telegram messaging app that the "Anglo-Saxons are clearly trying to scrape together a legal basis for the illegal seizure of Russian assets.'

[facthunter]

It's called "reparations". How was the Invasion of Ukraine EVER legal? You are not even allowed to use the term invasion in Russia.. Medvedev is a Puppet for Putin. Talking of Anglo Saxons sems unrelated to current circumstances.  Nev

[Garfly]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

It's called "reparations". How was the Invasion of Ukraine EVER legal? You are not even allowed to use the term invasion in Russia.. Medvedev is a Puppet for Putin. Talking of Anglo Saxons sems unrelated to current circumstances.  Nev

 

Sure, we know what it's called and nobody's standing up for Medvedev here, so far.

The Reuters article we're on about, though, digs out some geo-political detail behind the headlines.

I'd guess Medvedev's 'Anglo Saxon' comment refers to those who control the banks that hold those frozen Russky dollars.

U.N. General Assembly calls for Russia to make reparations in Ukraine

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/un-general-assembly-calls-russia-make-reparations-ukraine-2022-11-14/

Edited November 19, 2022 by Garfly

[skippydiesel]

FYI - the last remaining Shorts Belfast is in Cairns. Its in the process of being brought back into service.  I was at primary school with the test pilots son and saw the prototype fly and now my Sonex occupies part of the hanger that contains the parts inventory for the Belfast - small world.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Belfast

[Bruce Tuncks]

destroying that antonov was to me one of the worst crimes imaginable. And so stupid....  it  would have sat there unflown and only if it was used by the military would there be any excuse.

I recommend confiscating oligarch's money as reparations.

[willedoo]

4 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

destroying that antonov was to me one of the worst crimes imaginable. And so stupid....  it  would have sat there unflown and only if it was used by the military would there be any excuse.

I recommend confiscating oligarch's money as reparations.

Unfortunately the An-225 was collateral damage. If the Ukrainian artillery hadn't blasted the Russians out of the airport, the Russians would have held it and flown in troops and heavy equipment, giving them a good chance at their goal of taking Kiev. The battle for Hostomel airport might well have determined the entire outcome of the war. The Ukrainian artillery most likely destroyed it, going by the timelines of the battle and all the video evidence; the 225 was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Old Koreelah]

13 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

destroying that antonov was to me one of the worst crimes imaginable. And so stupid....  it  would have sat there unflown and only if it was used by the military would there be any excuse.

I recommend confiscating oligarch's money as reparations.

You’d better be quick Bruce; they’re a dying breed…

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/how-the-mysterious-deaths-of-23-elite-russians-sparked-a-global-murder-mystery-20221230-p5c9gb.html
 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/12/russian-tycoon-pavel-antov-dies-putin-ukraine/672601/

 

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/chilling-clues-that-seven-russian-oligarchs-were-murdered-by-putin/news-story/f43a9907df4b58d20cf7ea3c7e2f3de3

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_elites_during_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine_2022–2023

[Bruce Tuncks]

We even have some oligarchs in Australia, old K. I reckon though that after the war, those who fought it will make the ukrainian oligarchs pay some tax.

I read of one guy ( head of military construction) in Russia who has millionaire mansions everywhere and a very fashionable wife in Paris and a daughter at some finishing school somewhere expensive.  Tax them all real hard, say I, and the pommy royals too.

[willedoo]

47 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

destroying that antonov was to me one of the worst crimes imaginable. And so stupid....  it  would have sat there unflown and only if it was used by the military would there be any excuse.

I recommend confiscating oligarch's money as reparations.

Bruce, as an edit, even though all the timeline and video evidence of the battle that I've seen points to Ukrainian artillery causing the An-225 fire, I blame Russia 100% for it's demise. If they'd stayed home, the 225 would be still flying. It would be good to see the second partial 225 fly one day, if it ever happens.