ASIC AGAIN!!!

[Blueadventures]

2 hours ago, Area-51 said:

"A".... 😕
 

Sorry, sorry... "B", selecting "B", lock it in eddy...

No not 'B' that's a cockroach killer. Try again.

[spacesailor]

Complicated. 

It must be ' D ' learning " Morse code ", takes two people

( transmission & recipient ) over that cup of " latte ". To help you pass the " radio transmitting " licence.  It should be good for ' most ' transmitters .

spacesailor

[pmccarthy]

B is Maxwell Smart's shoe radio.

[onetrack]

"A".  My ginger cat will talk to anyone who'll listen.

[LoonyBob]

On 15/02/2024 at 6:52 AM, KRviator said:

I've long held the opposite view. Granted those of us in flying, or other industries that make us a target could make things easier for your average psycho, but there's enough information out there for any dedicated nutjob to do significant damage without assistance from those of us on the inside of whatever industry. And a lot of it is available from the likes of the NTSB/ATSB or scientific articles & datasheets.

If you're a truly dedicated terrorist group, you're going to have people doing significant research on the pros and cons of each method of martyrdom to get the best bang for your body and there's enough information out there for almost any industry to let you do so - it'll just take a little more time to collate than if we were to discuss it here.

I was of the same view, until I gained the shotfirer's licence; by that time, I had acquired a wide base of knowledge on backyard preparation of a range of explosives and detonators, from publicly available sources.

A shotfirer is responsible for maintaining the safety of the public w.r.t. explosives; and it was shown that keeping quiet about the nuts & bolts was of great import, because the record shows that terrorists, even more than criminals, don't use homemade explosives in IED, in the vast majority of cases.

The fact that terrorists have not yet used any of the methodologies that I dreamed up after 11/9, does not support your position. Remember, Baader/Meihoff were journalism students; science was beyond them...

[skippydiesel]

 

This letter was nether published in Sport Pilot or responded to by the Editor :

 

 

Re: Your response to my letter on “All The Way Up” & “Across The Guts” (SP 108)

Dear Editor,

......................................................................................................................

 

On ASIC:

 

Your statement; “……. we are part of a global aviation network that starts in our small airfields and we must meet the necessary requirements.”

 

You have made a linkage, in this statement that, does not exist.

 

ASIC, as it applies to Australian private pilots, wishing to access small RPT/Security Controlled fields, is an anomaly, who’s like does not exist anywhere in the “global aviation network”.

 

Further; A network implies an interconnected system, working to some common goal. This is clearly not the case. ASIC is a stand-alone charge/restriction on private pilots, wishing access to certain fields, that has no benefit (goal).

 

True! we must “…meet the necessary requirements” however there is no practical rationale for being obliged to do so.

 

23 years ago, when ASIC was first implemented, I like so many other pilots applied for & received their card.  9/11 Twin Towers attack (the motive behind ASIC) had us all worried. ASIC seemed reasonable at the time; its continued existence no longer does.

 

The decades since have clearly demonstrated that Australia is not a prime target for terrorist attack on/by aviation. Even if it were, technological developments have provided much more cost effective and easier methods of attack, that ASIC will not, in any way, deter ie ASIC is redundant and has been for the best part of 23 years.

 

From faulty memory, SP has had two articles on ASIC – neither was convincing. Probably because both authors (expert authorities?) failed utterly, to demonstrate their own support for the program.

 

The continued application of ASIC, as it applies to Australian private pilots, wishing to access small RPT/Security Controlled fields, is an abuse of power (I note, that failure to comply, may attract a $5,000 fine – insult to injury!).

 

You, as Editor of SP, should be taking every opportunity, to voice what the majority of RAA pilots believe – ASIC should be abolished.

 

Regards

 

...........

 

[kgwilson]

Not surprising. The Editor, Nic Heath responded to my comment regarding SE2 the ability of Airservices to see aircraft fitted with conspicuity devices and got it wrong. His comment was that his advice was blah blah. Nothing about I'll check that out etc. I was going to respond & put him right with contacts etc but gave up. He iust just another lackey of the system & not concerned with real issues relating to RA pilots. He doesn't even fly an RA aircraft.

[Markdun]

I believe at some point nearly all bodies corporate go from an organisation which supports and promotes members’ interests to an organisation where members are merely a factor of production supporting the interests of the organisation and its managers. For Ra-aus my guess is this occurred around the time of the name change from AUF and was ‘cemented’ with the change from an ‘association’ to ‘a corporation’.  The current ‘arse’ about approach is clearly demonstrated every time someone from RA-Aus crows about we are all about ‘supporting the industry’ or ‘network’ blah blah. Same writ large is the arse about logic imploring citizens to support the ‘economy’, when it’s actually the economy which should be serving or slave to society.

Skip, logical argument or actual evidence is irrelevant; it’s about power.  Always is.

[skippydiesel]

It disturbs me to think that democracy/the will of the people, has sunk to the point where we say "c'est la vie" or worst still, believe in some special power/knowledge of the "authorities" that must be accepted without question.

 

The likes of the SP Editor, spouting the party line/propaganda is an insult to journalism and the readers intelligence AND effectively mussels the potential for airing dissenting opinions.

[Markdun]

I do like fresh mussels, roasted on hot coals of a fire on the beach, with red wine and good company. A pity its not allowed anymore. Evidently a campfire on a beach will turn fine white silica sand black according to rangers, but bushfires and defence ordnance doesnt.

[skippydiesel]

Sorry about the mussels (muzzles😁) - the combination of dyslexia/auto spell and passion sometimes gets the better of me.

 

Still mussels are full of all sorts of good nutrition with which to build the energy to fight the good fight

[Red]

3 hours ago, Markdun said:

I believe at some point nearly all bodies corporate go from an organisation which supports and promotes members’ interests to an organisation where members are merely a factor of production supporting the interests of the organisation and its managers. For Ra-aus my guess is this occurred around the time of the name change from AUF and was ‘cemented’ with the change from an ‘association’ to ‘a corporation’.  The current ‘arse’ about approach is clearly demonstrated every time someone from RA-Aus crows about we are all about ‘supporting the industry’ or ‘network’ blah blah. Same writ large is the arse about logic imploring citizens to support the ‘economy’, when it’s actually the economy which should be serving or slave to society.

Skip, logical argument or actual evidence is irrelevant; it’s about power.  Always is.

Spot on

[turboplanner]

ASIO have just released this (Source: The Age)

WX00329.pdf

[BurnieM]

So pretty much how it has been for the last 100 years. 

"You need us. Can we have a budget increase?"

 

Analysis seems to be missing the bit about threats from 'allies'.

 

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

ASIO have just released this (Source: The Age)

WX00329.pdf 794.95 kB · 20 downloads

Very quick speed read - saw nothing that might justify ASIC being imposed on recreational pilots wishing to access small RPT airports.

 

If you are able to point out the sections that relate to ASIC in the above context - please do so. 😈

[turboplanner]

This Sunday 60 minutes; a terrorist tells how he was going to take down an RPT aircraft.

[aro]

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

This Sunday 60 minutes; a terrorist tells how he was going to take down an RPT aircraft.

The question is not whether threats exist, it is whether the ASIC is a useful tool against them.

 

Rule #1 for security is don't tell your adversary what you know. If you deny an ASIC, you tell them what you know. Maybe some ASICs are denied for trivial reasons, but if someone who is a real threat applies the ASIC must be granted to avoid tipping them off.

 

So the ASIC is useless, arguably worse than useless because people assume that someone with an ASIC is not a threat.

 

I have no doubt that real checks are done behind the scenes but they are not voluntary, you don't know they happen and you don't find out the result.

[skippydiesel]

3 hours ago, turboplanner said:

This Sunday 60 minutes; a terrorist tells how he was going to take down an RPT aircraft.

So an ASIC is going to neutralize this 60 Minutes hysteria.

Maaate get real;

60 Minutes is a TV trash mag - I would doubt the veracity of any story from this source.

Even if it was a real threat -  ASIC wont change a darn thing, might as well hold up the card, in the hope it will stop a bullet..

As I have said, so many times - with cheap readily available modern technology, you don't even have to be inside the ineffectual security fence, to be a threat to an aircraft, small or large.😈

[Ian]

T

10 hours ago, aro said:

The question is not whether threats exist, it is whether the ASIC is a useful tool against them.

 

Rule #1 for security is don't tell your adversary what you know. If you deny an ASIC, you tell them what you know. Maybe some ASICs are denied for trivial reasons, but if someone who is a real threat applies the ASIC must be granted to avoid tipping them off.

 

So the ASIC is useless, arguably worse than useless because people assume that someone with an ASIC is not a threat.

 

I have no doubt that real checks are done behind the scenes but they are not voluntary, you don't know they happen and you don't find out the result.

Rule #1 isn't a truism, all security strategies have costs and benefits. If a control leaks information it still may be beneficial.

 

ASIC's are denied for multiple reasons. Mostly because people are arseclowns with a history of violence or drug associations. 

 

ASIC cards, as they stand are security theatre, they are highly visible, costly and provide little actual benefit. Their main role is to stop GA pilots from using the airports that RPT uses. That is their main benefit from a Government perspective.

 

The ASIC card could provide some actual security benefits which are currently unrealised.

• It be used to provide access control to airports rather than the half arsed pin codes which are all just inside the gates/birth years etc.
• It could be used to dynamically pull access to airports should a risk be associated with an individual.
• It could be used to assess the security controls of an airport by making them electronically readable so a log of the efficacy of you security staff was assessable.
• It could be rolled into a national identity card so you only have to carry one piece of crap.

Instead it's a waste of time and effort. It costs millions each year with virtually zero actual benefit. It relies on a sticker for it's security, it's a joke.

 

If you want to learn about security reads the musings of Bruce Schneier, he's a clever guy who's also interested in the US attempts at airline security through the TSA

https://www.schneier.com/tag/security-theater/

 

If you want this to change, write to your local member and explain to him that you won't vote for him unless he promises to fix it. Stop voting for team red or team blue and actually vote on a single issue.

There probably aren't enough pilots to make them care but it's worth a shot.

 

[kgwilson]

It is a pathetic solution looking for a problem & has spawned a whole industry of issuers & you cannot be issued with any GA licence without it. There is no other country on the planet that has such a system

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, kgwilson said:

.................... you cannot be issued with any GA licence without it.

Not sure you are correct. Much may depend on where you train/fly out of ie Security Controlled Airfield you will need an ASIC

 

There is no other country on the planet that has such a system

We Aussies like to be a diffrent (or is it just stupid?)😈

 

[kgwilson]

A friend did his RPC to RPL conversion at Caboolture & they wouldn't issue it till he got the ASIC. AFAIK Caboolture is not security controlled.

[BurnieM]

If you search the CASA site for the RPC to RPL conversion form one of the documents required is an ASIC.

 

[skippydiesel]

Okay - its news to me. Just let my GA medical/BFR lapse late last year- didnt have an ASIC when it was all  up to speed. Does this mean I go to jail?😈

[facthunter]

....... and do not collect 200.  A Suite with Bubba at Bluestone College.  That will keep you on your toes. Nev

Edited yesterday at 06:12 AM by facthunter