ASIC AGAIN!!!

[turboplanner]

20 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Turbs; Your generosity knows no bounds🙃

 

Okay quick browse of the regs:

 

Starts by making the statement ;

 

"Under these regulations, all current pilots must have an aviation security status check. You will also need an aviation security status check if you're applying for a flight crew licence."

 

Followed by;

 

"You need an ASIC if you're flight crew flying at a security controlled airport, or a pilot under the age of 18." 

 

After the first catch all statement, goes on to qualify that, by limiting the need for an ASIC to "flight crew flying at a security controlled airport, or a pilot under the age of 18" - seems that if not at a ADSCA or under 18, you don't have to have an ASIC to train for or hold a pilots' license.

 

After the above - no further mention of pilots needing an ASIC, for training or continued holding of a pilot's license. All further references seem to relate only to accessing restricted/security areas of designated airfields. 

 

One again mixed messages - I would be truly amazed that an ASIC is required for training or continued use of a pilots' license. As I said my fairly recent GA BFR at a busy non security metropolitan airfield - no mention of ASIC.

You were doing well up to the last paragraph. Maybe the Instructor had read that the ASIC requirement had been dropped, maybe HE hadn’t read the refs, maybe he had just overlooked that thinking that you had one. Spin the bottle but it’s cheaper to read the lot in the long run.

[spacesailor]

I can't read documents that I do not possess .

Please , for those with no knowledge of ASIC . WE DONEED ENLIGHTENMENT. 

spacesailor

[Thruster88]

4 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Turbs; Your generosity knows no bounds🙃

 

Okay quick browse of the regs:

 

Starts by making the statement ;

 

"Under these regulations, all current pilots must have an aviation security status check. You will also need an aviation security status check if you're applying for a flight crew licence."

 

Followed by;

 

"You need an ASIC if you're flight crew flying at a security controlled airport, or a pilot under the age of 18." 

 

After the first catch all statement, goes on to qualify that, by limiting the need for an ASIC to "flight crew flying at a security controlled airport, or a pilot under the age of 18" - seems that if not at a ADSCA or under 18, you don't have to have an ASIC to train for or hold a pilots' license.

 

After the above - no further mention of pilots needing an ASIC, for training or continued holding of a pilot's license. All further references seem to relate only to accessing restricted/security areas of designated airfields. 

 

One again mixed messages - I would be truly amazed that an ASIC is required for training or continued use of a pilots' license. As I said my fairly recent GA BFR at a busy non security metropolitan airfield - no mention of ASIC.

I believe  casa license  holders must have a current ASIC or AVID. The AVID is only $126 and lasts  for 5 years. My understanding is RAAus pilots and aircraft operators are subject to all the same CAO's except those they are exempt from. Anyone have the exempt list handy ?

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Thruster88 said:

I believe  casa license  holders must have a current ASIC or AVID. 

Do you have any further information to support this statement?

[onetrack]

Hasn't this already been discussed at length? - just last year?

 

 

The utter stupidity of the security cards fiasco comes, when you read the CASA website and it states categorically that ALL pilots must hold an ASIC or AVID card.

 

https://www.casa.gov.au/operations-safety-and-travel/aviation-safety-and-security-pilots/security-requirements-pilots#ApplyingforanASIC

 

But then it only points to the Border Security/Home Affairs website, which has nothing referring to any such law.

What Home Affairs DOES have, is a form titled "Airport Operator TSP guidance".

 

This document clearly points out that there are "security controlled airports" and airports/aerodromes/runways that are NOT security controlled, because they haven't been declared SCA's. 

 

Right there is the fiasco in the ASIC card. It's all about TRANSPORT security - not airport security. We've got probably a thousand airstrips and runways where no-one cares what you do, when you arrive there - they are not security controlled airports.

 

It's pretty obvious the expectation of CASA is that once you acquire a pilots licence or certificate, you'll be visiting security-controlled airports.

But I reckon you could fly with a licence or certificate for a long time, without ever having to go near a security-controlled airport.

 

https://www.cisc.gov.au/reporting-and-compliance-subsite/Documents/airport-operator-tsp-guidance.pdf

[Area-51]

All airfields should be security controlled; conformity will solve all these issues presented in the forum and ensure that nobody misses out, remains unaccounted for, or is discriminated against. It will create more jobs.

[Thruster88]

Perhaps  turboplanner could  send a carefully  worded question  to casa regarding the requirements  for pilots to have a current security  check. AVID or ASIC or nothing required, which  is it?

. 

[facthunter]

Area 51 , most of our planes could take off from a dirt road or a harvested wheat paddock.. Nev

[Jabiru7252]

On the CASA website.

 

"You need an ASIC if you're flight crew flying at a security controlled airport, or a pilot under the age of 18. It allows you to operate at any airport in Australia."

 

 

[turboplanner]

57 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

Perhaps  turboplanner could  send a carefully  worded question  to casa regarding the requirements  for pilots to have a current security  check. AVID or ASIC or nothing required, which  is it?

. 

I'd suggest the CASA people would be rolling in the aisles by now.

[kgwilson]

2 hours ago, Area-51 said:

All airfields should be security controlled; conformity will solve all these issues presented in the forum and ensure that nobody misses out, remains unaccounted for, or is discriminated against. It will create more jobs.

Absolute rubbish. There are more airfields that are classified as ALAs than there are other aerodromes. They have no security, are unclassified, unregistered, often with no fences and are meeting places for pilots of all persuasions who couldn't give toss about security controlled aerodromes that they do not frequent and in numerous cases have never been to in their entire flying career.

 

I assume that you know Tyagarah is an ALA. Try turning that into a security controlled airfield. I'm sure the council would be happy to throw $10 million or more at it for fencing, another couple of million a year for operating costs and for what benefit? All that would do is get rid of most of those who operate from there and reduce the number of visitors to virtually none.

Edited November 24, 2023 by kgwilson

[onetrack]

Kevin, I think you missed the sarcasm in Area-51's post.

[facthunter]

Sarcasm is supposed to be the lowest form of wit. I guess it's still wit  Nev.

[Markdun]

I may be wrong but I think ALAs are an anachronism from last century when a GA pilot committed an offence if he/she operated a GA aircraft from an airfield/paddock that was not an ALA. Before the turn of the century the rule was changed and became that it was up to the pilot to determine whether the field was suitable. That said ALAs remain in databases and insurance companies refer to them…along the lines that their coverage doesn’t apply to operations from fields that aren’t. Where my airstrip is located there are at least 4 others within 5nm; all used and none are ALAs. There are also a couple of ALAs which have not seen an aircraft in 23 years.

[coljones]

A bit of light reading can be found by searching for

 

AVIATION TRANSPORT SECURITY REGULATIONS 2005 - REG 6.57

Flight crew licences etc--requirements in relation to issue

[turboplanner]

3 hours ago, coljones said:

A bit of light reading can be found by searching for

 

AVIATION TRANSPORT SECURITY REGULATIONS 2005 - REG 6.57

Flight crew licences etc--requirements in relation to issue

Looks like you might be on the way to getting the Meat Tray Col.

[pmccarthy]

Department of Home Affairs is Australia's security regulator for aviation. They also administer the Aviation Transport Security Regulations.

Under these regulations, all current pilots must have an aviation security status check. You will also need an aviation security status check if you're applying for a flight crew licence.

To get one of these checks you will need to apply for either an:

• Aviation Security Identification Card (ASIC)
• Aviation Identification (AVID).

The above was in the link that Onetrack posted.

Edited November 24, 2023 by pmccarthy

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

Department of Home Affairs is Australia's security regulator for aviation. They also administer the Aviation Transport Security Regulations.

Under these regulations, all current pilots must have an aviation security status check. You will also need an aviation security status check if you're applying for a flight crew licence.

To get one of these checks you will need to apply for either an:

• Aviation Security Identification Card (ASIC)
• Aviation Identification (AVID).

The above was in the link that Onetrack posted.

I have had a quick browse through your references - unable to find anything that supports your statement above - please refer to specific document, chapter(s) & page(s).

 

Did notice that if you are a foreign crew member & in uniform no ASIC is required - go figure that one.

Edited November 24, 2023 by skippydiesel

[coljones]

8 hours ago, coljones said:

A bit of light reading can be found by searching for

 

AVIATION TRANSPORT SECURITY REGULATIONS 2005 - REG 6.57

Flight crew licences etc--requirements in relation to issue

Some more light reading

 

CASR Part 61 says

 

"

61.335  Identity checks

             (1)  CASA may, by written notice given to the holder of a flight crew licence or certificate of validation, require the holder to provide evidence of his or her identity in accordance with paragraph 6.57(1)(a) of the Aviation Transport Security Regulations 2005.

             (2)  The holder commits an offence if:

                     (a)  CASA has not told the holder, in writing, that he or she has complied with the requirement; and

                     (b)  the holder exercises the privileges of the licence or certificate.

Penalty:  50 penalty units.

             (3)  For subregulation (2), CASA is taken to have told the holder that he or she has complied with the requirement if CASA issues a new licence document or certificate of validation to the holder after giving the holder the notice.

             (4)  An offence against this regulation is an offence of strict liability.

"

[skippydiesel]

61.335  Identity checks

             (1)  CASA may, by written notice given to the holder of a flight crew licence or certificate of validation, require the holder to provide evidence of his or her identity in accordance with paragraph 6.57(1)(a) of the Aviation Transport Security Regulations 2005.

 

The word may implies that  the requirement to provide proof of identity is at CASA's discretion ie- might happen / may not.

Where does it say that  pilot must have an ASIC  to hold a valid GA license?

[turboplanner]

2 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

61.335  Identity checks

             (1)  CASA may, by written notice given to the holder of a flight crew licence or certificate of validation, require the holder to provide evidence of his or her identity in accordance with paragraph 6.57(1)(a) of the Aviation Transport Security Regulations 2005.

 

The word may implies that  the requirement to provide proof of identity is at CASA's discretion ie- might happen / may not.

Where does it say that  pilot must have an ASIC  to hold a valid GA license?

 

What CASA may do does not change the meaning of what you have to supply.

 

A quick browse of 61.335 (2) (b), with the Commonwealth Penalty Unit at $313.00 indicates a fine of $15,650.00

 

If you go back and read what Col posted:

 

" (3)  For subregulation (2), CASA is taken to have told the holder that he or she has complied with the requirement if CASA issues a new licence document or certificate of validation to the holder after giving the holder the notice."

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

There's plenty of things for which you would have to provide proof of Identity to obtain.  Nev

[onetrack]

There's constant reference to "flight crew", but nothing referring to individual GA or RA pilots. To me, the definition of "flight crew" pertains only to people involved in RPT.

[kgwilson]

Proof of identity requirements vary from State to State and organisation to organisation. Most government agencies require documents that make up a total of 100 points, with each having a specified value. Birth certificate, Citizenship certificate and Passports (including foreign) in NSW are worth 70 points & then there are a whole lot of others including drivers licence, WWC card, Pensioner concession card, Doctors reference, Tertiary education photo ID, DVA card, and even an ASIC/Maritime security card worth 40 points for the first and 25 points for the rest. As well as that there are 14 other things like utility invoices, rates notices, bank statements, insurance policies, trade cards etc worth 25 points each.

 

So an ASIC is as good as a drivers licence, student ID or a doctors reference as proof of identity.

[skippydiesel]

40 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

Proof of identity requirements vary from State to State and organisation to organisation. Most government agencies require documents that make up a total of 100 points, with each having a specified value. Birth certificate, Citizenship certificate and Passports (including foreign) in NSW are worth 70 points & then there are a whole lot of others including drivers licence, WWC card, Pensioner concession card, Doctors reference, Tertiary education photo ID, DVA card, and even an ASIC/Maritime security card worth 40 points for the first and 25 points for the rest. As well as that there are 14 other things like utility invoices, rates notices, bank statements, insurance policies, trade cards etc worth 25 points each.

 

So an ASIC is as good as a drivers licence, student ID or a doctors reference as proof of identity.

So it may be however proof of ID does not require an ASIC - it could be any number of other documents.